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E51 The E51 Catalytic Converter Problem

Maybe not, it's hard to say what damage has been caused up to now.

If it was me though I'd chance it, fairly easy to get exhaust welded back up again and if hate to be leaving my van in a layby somewhere
SO I decided to cut the pipe open. Sure enough the passenger side Cat was blocked up with a good chunk of debris (other one was fine).
I have now freed it up and it drove home fine (although sounding very loud due to the holes in the exhaust)
Its hard given how loud the exhaust is now tio work out if ther engine sounds ok or not.... but it drove ok.
What would you do next (apart from de-core the cats.. ha ha) get teh engine checked I assume? What should I be asking somebody to do to check it? (as you can tell I'm not that mechanical)
 
Get the exhaust repaired, see how she sounds... You may have been lucky.

You may experience higher oil consumption now though so keep an eye on oil levels...
 
@Whaley Get exhaust welded up after they are decored , check your engine oil is correct level , first start car and check exhaust to see if u are burning oil (blue smoke ) then drive car and see if any different, keep eye on gauges, keep watching rear for smoke , if car is smooth just drive it as normal but check oil on a trip basis , u will no straight away if u have been lucky , fingers crossed
Even if u are burning a little it’s better than a goosed engine
 
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So apart from oil consumption anything else to look out for?
And when people say a goosed engine - do they not even drive?
I can't believe that I'll get lucky (born pessimist) so how else will I know? or will it just lose power/not have any power?
Sorry for all teh queries guys (and Gals)
 
So apart from oil consumption anything else to look out for?
And when people say a goosed engine - do they not even drive?
I can't believe that I'll get lucky (born pessimist) so how else will I know? or will it just lose power/not have any power?
Sorry for all teh queries guys (and Gals)

Burning oil would be the first sign, so blue smoke , a few people on here have got lucky so hopefully you have too.
 
So apart from oil consumption anything else to look out for?
And when people say a goosed engine - do they not even drive?
I can't believe that I'll get lucky (born pessimist) so how else will I know? or will it just lose power/not have any power?
Sorry for all teh queries guys (and Gals)
Some engines just burn a little oil , some rattle like a washing machine full of nuts and bolts and some are seized solid , I call the last two goosed , if u have melted the engine you will know , no power or won’t even run at all , even with holes in exhaust you will hear if running smooth , gd luck
 
THIS IS NOT FORUM LORE. THIS IS NOT A MYTH. THERE HAVE BEEN MANY DOCUMENTED INCIDENTS WHERE OWNERS HAVE HAD THEIR ENGINE BLOW UP BECAUSE OF THIS ISSUE. YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED.

CHECK OUT THIS THREAD FOR PROOF

LIST OF AFFECTED MEMBERS

The problem

A widely known issue with the Nissan Elgrand E51 is that the rear cats get blocked causing catastrophic
damage to the engine.

The problem starts with the fact that the E51 has a QUAD CAT SYSTEM. This means there is a PRIMARY and a SECONDARY catalytic converter on EACH BANK of the V6 engine.

The PRIMARY cats are the problem. Through use, after heating up and cooling down, they start to deteriorate. This happens with ANY catalytic converter when they reach the end of the their life. As the PRIMARY cats starts to break down and fall apart, the debris is pushed back through the exhaust. At this point, they come into contact with the SECONDARY cats, which creates a blockage.

As more and more of the PRIMARY falls apart, the blockage will prevent any exhaust gasses getting out. The exhaust gases (and dust particles) then build up pressure and go to the only place they can, back into the engine. It doesn't take a mechanic to know that if you put exhaust gas mixed with catalytic converter debris back into an engine, it's not going to last long.

So, that covers the problem, what can you do about it?

There are 2 main options.

1/ DECORE the SECONDARY CATS. This is a simple process. You remove the secondary cats, cut an opening in the top, smash the internals out, weld the opening shut again and re-fit them. This removes the point at which the debris from the PRIMARY cats will get stuck creating a blockage. The debris is just pushed out the back of the exhaust.

2/ Remove the SECONDARY CATS. Same principle as option 1, but you remove the cats altogether and replace with a straight through pipe. This is more costly than option 1, BUT what it means is that when it comes to MOT time, you still have the cats to fit to the vehicle if there are ever any issues.

But what about.......?

You will fail an MOT if you remove the rear cats and the tester knows they should be there. So if you do fit straight through pipes, keep the cats and then you can fit them again at a later date if you need to.
If you go for option 1, make sure the access hole is cut in the top of the cat so that the head shield will cover the weld when it's sealed up again. If the hole is on the bottom, and the tester can see that they have been tampered with, he'll fail it.

Emissions are NOT affected by removal of the secondary cats. They are only part of the system due to the strict "cold starting" emissions policies in Japan. In the UK the emissions test is done on a warm engine, and therefore the secondary cats serve ZERO purpose.

Is this legal?

I don't know what PC Plod can do about you removing/modifying the cats. But, if you tell an MOT tester that you have modified the cats in any way, and it fails, then technically the car is not road worthy. We know this is bollocks. It'll still pass the emissions test, it will still drive perfectly OK, and you have removed the risk of having your engine blow up when belting down the motorway at no more than 70 (of course).

The choice on what you do is up to you. Keep them if you want. But then every time you drive your E51 you will be wondering when the engine is going to blow up. I know from a personal point of view, I'd rather take the risk with the MOT tester than have catastrophic engine failure and a £4500 engine rebuild bill.

I heard about a Recall for this problem!?

The recall has NOTHING to do with this problem. All it will do is prolong the inevitable. The recall was put out to adjust the fuelling. If your car is subject to the recall, the engine map was putting too much fuel into the engine. This meant that excess fuel was getting blown out of the engine following combustion and then igniting in the exhaust system due to the heat. This meant that the exhaust was getting a lot hotter than it should causing premature deterioration of the primary cats.
With the recall in place, the engine will not overfuel... but it does not mean that the primary cats will not start to disintegrate over time.

There have been at least 2 instances that I know of where a car that was NOT on the recall list has had the engine fail because of blocked cats.

Why does this need doing?

Cars built for EU and UK roads are designed with the climate in mind. Therefore, as part of the manufacture process, there are treatments applied to the bare metal to prevent the chassis corroding. JDM cars are NOT done, because the climate in Japan is very different to ours.

The underseal is required to ensure that your car doesn't turn into a pile of rust over the winter. More importantly, because you are doing this AFTERMARKET, it is something that is seen as temporary, not permanent. The products applied will, over time, wear off or get damaged thus leaving untreated metal to come into contact with salt and moisture.

The better the product you use, the longer it's life. There may even be products out there that come with a "life of the car guarantee"... but I'm sure they'll cost more than £400!

With that in mind, discuss the options available with the garage you chose for your underseal and discuss repeat applications and how often they will be required. If they want your continued business, they will offer all options and tailor the service to your requirements and budget.
 
Thanks for the info on the CATS. I shall be removing them altogether ASAP just to be on the safe side.
 
Opinions: Will a new set of rear cats clog just as easily as an old set? Asking as I'm viewing a potential purchase where the owner has replaced rear cats and not the fronts. It'll be a long drive home and I don't want to fuck it up.
 
Opinions: Will a new set of rear cats clog just as easily as an old set? Asking as I'm viewing a potential purchase where the owner has replaced rear cats and not the fronts. It'll be a long drive home and I don't want to fuck it up.
If the front ones haven't broken up yet then yes they could.
 
Yes, if the front cats give up they will block anything other than a straight through pipe. Depending on whether the fronts give up slowly or whether they have a sudden catastrophic failure will depend on how quickly they clog the rears, so you may get lucky with new rears, but get rid asap.
 
Get him to clarify what he replaced them with. Maybe he replaced them with straight through pipes.

Yeah I can't imagine he paid for new replacement cats, that would be very expensive
 
Has anyone got an MOT running on petrol without front/both sets of cats?

Be interesting to see when front ones break up if they actually need to be replaced.
Yes mine passed Tuesday. No issues. Have full system by Powerflow.
 
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