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LIST OF ACTIONS REGARDING E51/E52 CATALYTIC CONVERTER ISSUES

Duvetman

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I ripped out the rears. Despite the caveats on here, if it breaks, you will hear from my solicitor😡

sorry, carry on.🥰

I love my bus. I hope, it never throws in the towel and dies by cat. If so, I will thrash it with a tree branch!😡

again. Carry on. 🧐
 

L18M

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Sorry I can't answer that. I'm not sure how far into production the issue continued. Hopefully someone with a series 2 will be able to confirm whether theirs has or hasn't had a recall done for the over fuelling issue
I have an 05 S2. Has had the recall for over fueling done.
Recall applied to 4 models:
Ua-e52
Cba-e51
Ua-ne51
Cba-ne51

Had a quick look at my cats and they still appear in tact, IE not decored.
Will take off hopefully tomorrow to inspect for debris.

Recall info below.

Recall notification number3225Recall start dateSeptember 13, 2013
Status of structure, equipment or performance recognized as non-conforming to the standard and its causeDue to improper programming of the engine control computer, the intake air amount of the engine may be insufficient when decelerating due to accelerator off from high engine speed, fuel is discharged without burning in the engine, and exhaust gas purification on the front side Combustion with the catalyst causes the inside of the catalyst to become hot, which may damage the catalyst. For this reason, broken catalyst fragments generate abnormal noise, and if the rear catalyst is clogged, acceleration will be poor, and in the worst case, the engine may stall after a malfunction.
Details of improvementCorrect the engine control program to the countermeasure specifications, check the damaged state of the catalyst, and if there is any abnormality, replace the catalyst (4 pieces) with a new one.
・ The range of chassis numbers that include vehicles subject to recall includes vehicles that are not subject to recall
. Please contact the sales company from which you purchased the product for details .
・ The production period of the recalled vehicle does not match the time of purchase.
・ The chassis number is printed on the vehicle verification. http://www.Nissan.co.jp/RECALL/IMAGES/pix.gif

Model​
Common name​

Range of chassis numbers included in recalled vehicles​

Production period of recalled vehicles​

Number of vehicles subject to recall​
Remarks​
UA-E51
CBA-E51​
Elgrand​
E51-000037
to E51-156623
April 10,
2002-November 1, 2006
74,443 units​
UA-NE51
CBA-NE51​
NE51-000040
~ NE51-154531
 

Unfo

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The 3.5 engine is recommended to run on super unleaded so you're doing the right thing there 👍🏼
As for lpg, if it's been set up right there shouldn't be any issues with running. There are theories that lpg runs hotter, and can cause cat damage too, but in that scenario all the cats can be removed due to the lower emmisions running on lpg so removes the risk.
If you're thinking of lpg, do your research and use a reputable installer 👍🏼
That's exactly right, steer well clear of that @Lpgc geezer I've heard he's dodgy af 😂
 

Lpgc

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Okay thanks, good to know. These were both VQ25DE engines so maybe overfueling is the domain of 3.5L

Regards the exhaust and fuelling mixture 2 main things are different between the 2.5 and 3.5 setups..

1. The 3.5 uses narrowband lambda sensors which cannot accurately measure a rich mixture, during normal (not booting it driving) the mixture is steered to be chemically correct (stochiometric) but driving near and at full throttle and at above (say) 3000rpm it switches to open loop fuelling (ignores the lambda sensors and relies fully on it's map for getting mixture correct). For max power from an engine when you put your foot down the mixture has to go richer than stochiometric (chemically correct) to some extent but some engines go a lot richer than others... The part of the map controlling high load open loop fuelling on the 3.5 is a little richer than on most other engines.

The 2.5 uses wide band probes which are capable of accurately measuring even quite a rich mixture, it can still go open loop when you put your foot down but goes open loop a lot less often than the 3.5. It still goes richer than stochiometric (chemically correct) mixture under high loads but most of the time even high load mixture is controlled closed loop. Engines with wide band probes have 'command lambda' (the control system aims for a specific mixture under specific conditions), in most driving conditions command lambda will still aim for the stochiometric (correct) mixture of 14.7:1 but when you put your foot down this may change to (e.g.) 13:1 - still not as rich as the 3.5's go.

2. All other things being the same cats on the 3.5 will have to do more work than cats on a 2.5 if you put your foot down because the 3.5 is a bigger engine capable of emitting more exhaust gas (more work for cats to do) than the 2.5, and as in (1) this lower flow of exhaust gasses is also less likely to contain unburned fuel.

3. I doubt any sort of fuelling recall could prevent Elgrands from destroying their own cats, there are many vehicles (including turbos etc) that run richer mixtures under heavy load that don't tend to destroy their own cats.
 
Last edited:

Steve Thompson

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So what is the Elephant in the room?
It's missing from all of these threads from what I can see.
Here it is - the Catalytic Converters are consumables.
Yes that's right.
They don't last forever.
100,000 miles or about 10 years on average!
Any car, any manufacturer, any model.
They are all about the same.
Thing is ours are not normal - they are on the edge of normal.
Blame what you like from any of the above reasons - design, fueling environment, take your pick.
They all/any may make some difference to the life expectancy.
Fact is (I'll say it again ) THE CATS ARE A CONSUMABLE.
They will degrade over time and need replacing.
So - how old is your Elgrand eh?
 

Stempyuno

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Which means they wear out. My old Citroen used to throw up an eml every now and then which when put on the diagnostics said this is to remind you that your cats are wearing out.
 

Duvetman

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Right. I am selling the bus. Sorry, it has too many issues I can’t cope with. Enough now.

Anyone got a Triumph Stag going cheap?
 

Gregyem

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Right, so if i have this right, cats are a consumable so the problem isn't so much that they wear out, it's that as they age, they don't excrete their detritus out of the system because the second cat collects the crap and builds back pressure to a point where first cat detritus can find it's way into the cylinders. If that be the case and Nissan used two in-line cats per exhaust, to meet pollution mitigation requirements, then a single cat that still meets your own country's pollution spec should resolve this, if of course that is possible with just one. It would seem to me that locating it further away from the manifold would also reduce probability of particulates getting back into the cylinders. Have cats gotten more efficient and possibly more stable since these Elgrands were built?
 

Craigarty

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Finally having rear cats removed and replaced with straight pipes Monday. Missed last appointment as radiator was being fixed.
 

Steve Thompson

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The efficiency of our cat replacements (original equipment anyway) would not have increased.
A step improvement would probably imply a step cost increase and for an old model this would be deemed unacceptable for sure.
However manufacturing quality stability can normally be expected over time though.
That is:-
Original cats were built to cycle (from cold to hot to cold) say 1,000 times (just for arguments sake) before showing degradation.
Early manufacturing tolerances may accept a range of 800+ cycles.
This number could show increase over the full life build cycle of the Elgrand.
So - a quality improvement - yes, efficiency improvement - no.
 

Lpgc

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So what is the Elephant in the room?
It's missing from all of these threads from what I can see.
Here it is - the Catalytic Converters are consumables.
Yes that's right.
They don't last forever.
100,000 miles or about 10 years on average!
Any car, any manufacturer, any model.
They are all about the same.
Thing is ours are not normal - they are on the edge of normal.
Blame what you like from any of the above reasons - design, fueling environment, take your pick.
They all/any may make some difference to the life expectancy.
Fact is (I'll say it again ) THE CATS ARE A CONSUMABLE.
They will degrade over time and need replacing.
So - how old is your Elgrand e

I broadly agree with 'consumables' although I do think Elgrand cats have more of a tendency for failing at irregular ages / mileages than on most vehicles.

Reckon only a broad data set would be convincing for a lot of people - We could ask people what age/mileage cats failed at, we could then plot the results on a scatter-graph and/or work out various averages.. But people would still be interested in how individual vehicles were used (those hot/cold cycles), what fuel they were run on, servicing, mileage on import, how many years in the UK, does the owner drive it with a heavy right foot, etc. I expect averages would agree with consumables but extreme points plotted on the scatter-graph would point to something unusual going on in terms of failures that wouldn't have been expected by anyone on a different model vehicle, e.g. on relatively low mileage examples recently imported, seemingly well maintained and run on super unleaded. Not that I necessarily agree with any of those points (when imported, maintenance, fuel), just that I think the only way of getting much more than a slightly majority verdict would mean collecting all that data.
 
Last edited:

Gregyem

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I broadly agree with 'consumables' although I do think Elgrand cats have more of a tendency for failing at irregular ages / mileages than on most vehicles.

Reckon only a broad data set would be convincing for a lot of people - We could ask people what age/mileage cats failed at, we could then plot the results on a scatter-graph and/or work out various averages.. But people would still be interested in how individual vehicles were used (those hot/cold cycles), what fuel they were run on, servicing, mileage on import, how many years in the UK, does the owner drive it with a heavy right foot, etc. I expect averages would agree with consumables but extreme points plotted on the scatter-graph would point to something unusual going on in terms of failures that wouldn't have been expected by anyone on a different model vehicle, e.g. on relatively low mileage examples recently imported, seemingly well maintained and run on super unleaded. Not that I necessarily agree with any of those points (when imported, maintenance, fuel), just that I think the only way of getting much more than a slightly majority verdict would mean collecting all that data.
I agree, I think a lot of decisions get made on anecdotal evidence and perhaps sometimes this may lead to a bit of a theme in social media.
Having said that, my own personal journey to Elgrands was mostly directed by anecdotal evidence. I wanted a van and Elgrands caught my eye a couple of years ago but the forums told me fuel consumption was a big negative. I moved on to researching Ford Transits but anecdotes told me injectors and fuel pump failures was really costly and common, moved on to Renault traffic, anecdotes warned me of poor build and short shelf life, moved to VW and this time it was gearbox and electronics, Hyundai- disintergrating turbo. Aaaaaah. Non of these factors had preventive maintenance measures from what I could see. Back to Elgrands, no common rail diesel issues, no catastrophic expenses around the corner (if cats are dealt with). So, for the lack of robust stats that can take into account all the dependent and independent variables (big ask), one has to rely on the general consensus. Perhaps one approach to improve this could be a subforum -"What broke on your Elgrand" that can be mined/exported that lists failures and metadata-series, year, version etc.
Alternatively, just change out the cats ha ha.
 
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