Hi, Need help deciding between a couple of cars

[JohnK]

Question, what's the benefits of LPG, is it cheaper or does it actually give you more mpg?

Another benefit to add to Simons list is that you can at least double the range before fill ups. I can get around 400km on lpg then switch over to petrol and get another 400kms. If i had one of Simon's 90 litre tanks I'd get even more on lpg. Good for long trips .
Having said that getting LPG around these parts is not easy. My nearest station now is 40 miles away and charges 109.9 - still a saving on Momentum but not convenient for frequent fills. I tend only to use LPG on long runs these days.

 

[Lpgc]

Another benefit to add to Simons list is that you can at least double the range before fill ups. I can get around 400km on lpg then switch over to petrol and get another 400kms. If i had one of Simon's 90 litre tanks I'd get even more on lpg. Good for long trips .
Having said that getting LPG around these parts is not easy. My nearest station now is 40 miles away and charges 109.9 - still a saving on Momentum but not convenient for frequent fills. I tend only to use LPG on long runs these days.

Hi John, have you looked into how much gas in bottles would cost you?

I added the ability to connect extra LPG tanks to my Elgrand so in addition to the permanently fitted 93L external tank I often have a 2nd 80L tank fitted behind the rear seats. Like the permanently fitted tank the 2nd tank is also a proper autogas tank but I set it up so it can be fitted or removed at any time without the need for any plumbing etc. With the 2nd tank fitted I have 700 miles range on LPG plus the usual range on petrol, so that's tripling the range... But I don't like using petrol, too expensive and muckies my engine oil lol, I don't use a full tank of petrol in a year and I do around 15000 miles per year. Since the 2nd tank can easily be fitted/removed without the need to do any plumbing I could carry more than 2 tanks if I wished for even more range. As said I mostly refuel at home these days without need to visit a forecourt, a quick call to my local bottled gas supplier and they'll come out next day to collect my empty red bottle and drop off a full red bottle. I don't even need to see the driver, I pay over the phone for the gas when I order it. If I preferred I could pay the driver instead of paying over the phone but if I pay over the phone I don't even need to be there when the driver comes to exchange bottles.

 

[JohnK]

Hi John, have you looked into how much gas in bottles would cost you?

I added the ability to connect extra LPG tanks to my Elgrand so in addition to the permanently fitted 93L external tank I often have a 2nd 80L tank fitted behind the rear seats. The 2nd tank can be fitted or removed at any time without the need for any plumbing etc. With the 2nd tank fitted I have 700 miles range on LPG plus the usual range on petrol... But I don't like using petrol, too expensive and muckies my engine oil lol. Since the 2nd tank can easily be fitted/removed without the need to do any plumbing I could carry more than 2 tanks if I wished for even more range.

Hi Simon. Yes I have considered that but I'm doing so little mileage these days the initial outlay doesn't seem worth it just yet.
My installation was done 7 years ago now, well before I knew about you and I can only get around 55 litres in. That gives me just about enough to get to Cornwall (my regular holiday destination) before needing to fill up again.
Even with one of your pumps that would only get me one way and I'd need to find a station down there (and there's only a couple left in Cornwall now as you will know ) for the return. I really don't have enough room when camping to carry a spare filled cylinder around.
I haven't ruled it out longer term but just at the moment can't justify the outlay.

 

[Up&Dn]

I live between Manchester, Wigan and Bolton...the northwest riveria!!

Not seen any LPG around here but then again I've not been looking.

What is the standard price for a full LPG install, p.s. we have a rear conversion camper

 

[Lpgc]

Hi Simon. Yes I have considered that but I'm doing so little mileage these days the initial outlay doesn't seem worth it just yet.
My installation was done 7 years ago now, well before I knew about you and I can only get around 55 litres in. That gives me just about enough to get to Cornwall (my regular holiday destination) before needing to fill up again.
Even with one of your pumps that would only get me one way and I'd need to find a station down there (and there's only a couple left in Cornwall now as you will know ) for the return. I really don't have enough room when camping to carry a spare filled cylinder around.
I haven't ruled it out longer term but just at the moment can't justify the outlay.

Yes, range is obviously much more of a problem with a small capacity tank. Even with just the usual single external 93L tank I fit my customers and I can carry 6 gallons more LPG than your 55 litres (12 gallons) so have 50% more range on LPG. Range is very important since there are not that many places to refuel when you're away from home. The ability to refuel at home is a fix for short range if your driving is all local, good range is a fix for not many places to refuel if you drive long distances but still pass forecourts that sell LPG at reasonable price, having both the ability to refuel at home with cheap LPG from bottles and good range is a fix for just about all fuel costs / availability concerns. The next time I refuel my Elgrand away from my driveway will probably be in Newquay Cornwall but I expect to do around 6000 miles in it before then including a trip to the Welsh coast towing my heavy boat (round trip of around 360 miles, plus around 40 miles driving around whilst there for total 400 miles).

Talking to one of my customers the other day who also buys gas in bottles from the same bottled gas compay I buy it from... I get it delivered, he collects it. It costs me around 86p per litre, it costs him around 65p. I might start collecting it, if I do I'll get a few extra bottles and take them all in the trailer to exchange. One trip 10 miles down the road once per month could save me an extra 21p per litre.

 

[Lpgc]

I live between Manchester, Wigan and Bolton...the northwest riveria!!

Not seen any LPG around here but then again I've not been looking.

What is the standard price for a full LPG install, p.s. we have a rear conversion camper

I charge £2095 to convert 'standard' as in not camper converted Elgrands, a bit more for campers because there is more work involved fitting the tank on campers as the underslung external tank in the spare wheel location is bolted through the floor.

Obviously if you only use the Elgrand for short distances or don't think you'll be keeping it long it's not worth converting. But the savings come sooner than you might think if the LPG conversion adds value to the vehicle, and ELgrands I converted to LPG are sought after because everyone knows they've been done properly and have the biggest tank etc...

Heh, many years ago and before I got into LPG converting a mate who was a local painter and decorator didn't have much money at the time but ran a 4L Jag. I asked him how he afford to run it, he said all his trips were local so it didn't matter what vehicle he ran he could still afford to run it, even if he had something that did 1mpg it wouldn't much matter because he didn't drive more than 1 mile per day anyway. But true enough, on his days off he didn't enjoy trips to the coast in his Jag and I think he would have liked to have a drive to the coast if it wasn't for how much it would've cost him in fuel. After I got into LPG conversions I could've made the Jag cost Fiesta money to run, I think he might've enjoyed a few trips to the coast if it would only have cost him Fiesta fuel money and he'd prefer to be in the Jag than a Fiesta.

 

[Elgraman]

Question, what's the benefits of LPG, is it cheaper or does it actually give you more mpg?

It's another thing which can fail/go wrong. There may be people who 'like that', or the thought of that occurring (remember, it takes all sorts in this world)
It's getting rarer at the 'pumps', and increasing in price more than water bills. Again, there are people who might 'like' the price rises of it and rarity of it going out of the window. They might like driving around looking for a filling station. Takes all sorts etc.
You can, of course, have delivery of Space X style rocket cannisters. Again, there may well be people who love to do that and enjoy looking at them.

 

[Highway Dave]

lol, it certainly does take all sorts of, lol

It's another thing which can fail/go wrong. There may be people who 'like that', or the thought of that occurring (remember, it takes all sorts in this world)
It's getting rarer at the 'pumps', and increasing in price more than water bills. Again, there are people who might 'like' the price rises of it and rarity of it going out of the window. They might like driving around looking for a filling station. Takes all sorts etc.
You can, of course, have delivery of Space X style rocket cannisters. Again, there may well be people who love to do that and enjoy looking at them.

 

[Lpgc]

It's another thing which can fail/go wrong. There may be people who 'like that', or the thought of that occurring (remember, it takes all sorts in this world)
It's getting rarer at the 'pumps', and increasing in price more than water bills. Again, there are people who might 'like' the price of it and rarity of it going north. Takes all sorts etc.
You can, of course, have delivery of Space X style rocket cannisters. Again, there may well be people who love to do that and enjoy looking at them.

Your electric windows are another thing that can fail. On the flip side to what you said, when I'm converting Elgrands to LPG I give them a health check and sometimes find problems that would have led to possible engine destruction had I not seen it and advised the owner. Don't forget I came up with the method to electronically check for cat problems, I discovered the plenum flaps issue, etc. I've seen and worked on far more Elgrands than your average mechanic and notice things others don't.

Your ideas about there may be people who might like the idea of something going wrong with their car seem a bit odd.

Price of LPG in bottles remains around the same.

SpaceX rocket canisters = not so slight exaggeration of size of 47kg gas bottles lol.

With your take on cars I'm surprised you haven't brought the MX5 to me for me to check it over, but I suppose you did the next best thing by asking my advice in PMs before your accident.

 

[Elgraman]

Your ideas about there may be people who might like the idea of something going wrong with their car seem a bit odd.

I watch the news and hear stories of shed loads of people partaking in things/strangely liking things which I find odd.

#takesallsorts

 

[Elgraman]

With your take on cars I'm surprised you haven't brought the MX5 to me for me to check it over, but I suppose you did the next best thing by asking my advice in PMs before your accident.

Yes, I asked your advice about long term-ish non-use over last winter. In fact, I asked a number of people.
This (the quote) itself seems an odd, and a somewhat petty remark, but again, takes all sorts.

 

[Lpgc]

I watch the news and hear of shed loads of people partaking in things/strangely liking things which I find odd.

#takesallsorts

It wouldn't be news if it wasn't odd though...

It would be news to me, and to most other people, if someone had an LPG conversion fitted in the hope something would go wrong with it, such a small minority of people would have an LPG conversion fitted in the hope something would go wrong with it that it's difficult to understand why someone might post this as a possible reason someone might want an LPG conversion... unless you're implying it would give them another reason to bring their car to me for me to have another look at their car to give it another general health check.

There are people who don't know about the possibility of refuelling with LPG at home from red 47kg bottles so I sometimes mention it if we're talking fuel costs etc. Whenever I mention it you exaggerate the size to compare with SpaceX rocket boosters, the massive exaggeration seems a bit odd. There's that kid on TV adverts who can't wait for his mum to finish using a bottle or Fairy liquid so he can make a rocket from that, the 47kg bottle is closer in size to the fairly liquid bottle than the SpaceX booster lol .

 

[Elgrandonaut]

Ignore button is very handy

 

[Up&Dn]

I charge £2095 to convert 'standard' as in not camper converted Elgrands, a bit more for campers because there is more work involved fitting the tank on campers as the underslung external tank in the spare wheel location is bolted through the floor.

Obviously if you only use the Elgrand for short distances or don't think you'll be keeping it long it's not worth converting. But the savings come sooner than you might think if the LPG conversion adds value to the vehicle, and ELgrands I converted to LPG are sought after because everyone knows they've been done properly and have the biggest tank etc...

Heh, many years ago and before I got into LPG converting a mate who was a local painter and decorator didn't have much money at the time but ran a 4L Jag. I asked him how he afford to run it, he said all his trips were local so it didn't matter what vehicle he ran he could still afford to run it, even if he had something that did 1mpg it wouldn't much matter because he didn't drive more than 1 mile per day anyway. But true enough, on his days off he didn't enjoy trips to the coast in his Jag and I think he would have liked to have a drive to the coast if it wasn't for how much it would've cost him in fuel. After I got into LPG conversions I could've made the Jag cost Fiesta money to run, I think he might've enjoyed a few trips to the coast if it would only have cost him Fiesta fuel money and he'd prefer to be in the Jag than a Fiesta.

Thanks for your reply.

Suppose we're similar in terms of use.

We'd not have any need to own and run thirsty people carrier no matter how lovely it is to drive , which it is, I'd probably plump for a 4litre jag myself!!...always wanted one after watching Minder as a kid.

However, we fancied having a dabble at Van Life but was loath to pay the VW prices and stumbled across converted Elgrands. Part of the deal of getting one was the missus works from home, I luckily have a car with my job which she can use so we don't use it much and therefore the running costs are spread out somewhat...not ideal but it works for us.

Probably not worth the outlay for us, unless things change obviously...if I had the spare dosh I'd probably put it towards a towbar and trailer to make the camping a bit easier.

 

[WhatsThisFor]

Ignore button is very handy

Mine is worn out.

 

[Elgraman]

It wouldn't be news if it wasn't odd though...

It would be news to me, and to most other people, if someone had an LPG conversion fitted in the hope something would go wrong with it, such a small minority of people would have an LPG conversion fitted in the hope something would go wrong with it

Yes, it no doubt would be small, but whether it would be zero is another story. Hence, accounting for inclusivity, it was included.
As stated, I'll watch the news each night and see 'such a small minority of people' doing things I wouldn't hav e thought they'd take pleasure in doing.

 

[Elgraman]

Ignore button is very handy

I'm fine. I not the sort to turn off the world and pretend someone don't exist due to not being able to handle someone having a different opinion than my own

 

[Elgraman]

I really don't have enough room when camping to carry a spare filled cylinder around.

lol I'm not surprised!

 

[kfgas]

Hi,

I'm very close to buying my first E51 but need help deciding between a couple local to me as one is 2.5 4x4 and the other is 3.5 2wd.

I initally wanted a 3.5 but the 2.5 one available near me is very very nice.


2007 2.5 4wd highway star autech in white
40000mls
very very clean condition, looks almost new
£8k

2006 3.5 2wd highway star in black
75000mls
interior perfect
few minor marks on the bodywork
This one has and LPG system installed by a very well respected company
£7k

I'm concerned I will regret going for the 2.5 instead of the 3.5 and the lpg on the 3.5 really appeals to me.
Any input/advice would be appreciated

Thanks in advance

This thread seems to have gone a bit off subject but to answer the original question it sounds to me that whichever one you go for you will end up regretting it

My advise would be to hang on or broaden your search area to find the one you that you know you will be happy with as both of the 2 that you have listed seem to have negatives that will play on your mind and make you think that you would have been better off with the other one.

Better to wait a bit for the right one to turn up or travel a bit further than buy one that you are not completely happy with.

I waited nearly 3 months before buying mine and ended up importing it from Japan to get the model spec and colour that I wanted

That was nearly 6 years ago and I have never once regretted buying it

I have a 4 wheel drive 3.5 which was important for me as I was converting to a camper and wanted the 4 wheel drive capability for muddy fields etc and also the extra power for when carrying camping gear

Regards the debate on 2.5 versus 3.5 from my point of view I can not see why buying a 2.5 makes any sense especially in 4 wheel drive as the one you have listed as this will make it slower again when there is the option of a 3.5 as from what I have read on here there is virtually no benefit in fuel economy and parts are harder to come by

Granted they are a bit cheaper to buy in the 1st place as not so desirable but then the resell is less.

Regarding LPG I did look at this when I first bought and would have had it converted but with the low level of mileage I do of less than 2000 per year preferred to spend the money on styling, brakes and suspension mods to make it a better drive as in my circumstances that seemed the better choice for me.

Come the end of the day we all want different things from our Elgrands and use them for different purposes so what may be right for one will not work for another.

I wish you luck in your search and keep us updated with what you decide on.

 

[LowStandards]

Go for the 2.5


The 3.5 is the wrong engine for a van anyways, so having a bit less power can't make much odds