Everything you ever wanted to know about changing CVT fluid and how they work

[Some Guy]

I have a Nissan Juke and it has no dipstick, it's only a short one. I don't know how to check the level in the gearbox at all without taking it to the dealer. Anyone got any ideas.

Its probably accessible via an OBD 11 scanner, what does the owners manual say ?

 

[pandaxiong]

Take a look at Catrol Cvt fluid as well they confirmed to me that it's OK to use in my E52 cvt.

From what my mechanic says as long as it says its NS-3 approved it should be OK as these are then ok'd by the manufacturer of the vehicle as they have to be tested. He mentioned Comma oils to me which is a cv2 and 3 rated oil...

Of course I haven't validated that though but he is a decent enough guy in my opinion.

any link to purchase the castrol ones? thanks.

 

[pandaxiong]

They arent approved by Nissan , the manufacturer just calls them compatible. I was reading a thread the other day where someone used this and got slippage in the gearbox and had to go back to the original. Its an expensive gearbox to replace so its up to you whether you want to run the risk. There is no generic standard other manufacturers can design to for CVT's so it may have no short or long term affects (ie be OK) or it may not.

good points noted!
because from where I come from i.e. Singapore, we uses the 4L Japan Nissan ones, and its around £35-40 per tin.

 

[PaulC72]

good points noted!
because from where I come from i.e. Singapore, we uses the 4L Japan Nissan ones, and its around £35-40 per tin.

You won't beat that price for 4 litres

Castrol TRANSMAX CVT Fully Synthetic Transmission Fluid

The UK's largest independent supplier of automotive oils, fluid and parts. We've products to suit any vehicle, from full blown Race / Track weapons, to Daily Drivers looking to save money. Plus FREE expert advice & recommendations - OPIE KNOW OILS

www.opieoils.co.uk

Castrol Cvt.

 

[Some Guy]

Its your choice , its your gearbox.

I know Castrol is reputable however the manufacturer (Nissan), like others, only supports their tested oil. This comes up on just about every car forum and its up to you whether you want to take the punt.

Its the same answer for me regardless of the car, I buy either genuine fluids or other fluids that state manufacturer standards on the bottle. Eg Volkswagen publish specific oil specs and other vendors meet these.
I personally wont rely on words like "should be OK" or "my local mechanic said."
If its a chemical engineer who works in the field it might be a different answer.

The data sheet for the Castrol uses language like "should be suitable" however this is different to how vendors work. It also states "Suitable for use in continuously variable transmissions (CVT) of most Japanese passenger cars and can be recommended for use in most passenger cars fitted with push belt technologies."

The data shows https://msdspds.castrol.com/bpglis/...74D1061802586AF0055100A/$File/bpxe-9rv9fp.pdf
shows
Product Performance Claims
Suitable for use where the following are called for: Toyota CVT Fluid TC, FENissan CVT Fluid NS-1, NS-2, NS-3

If its no risk then ask the mechanic to warrant it for a couple of years and see how quickly he backpedals.

A different approach is what VAG do:
As an example
https://www.vagparts.com.au/products/g052182a2-gear-oil <-- genuine with the part number G052182A2
https://www.europaparts.com/dsg-transmission-fluid-liqui-moly-1-liter.html
The language used here is

Approvals & Recommendations:​

• Volkswagen: G052529A2, G052182, TL52182

It also states

• OEM: G052182A2
• MPN: LM20044

So they are basically clearly stating its recommended and approved with equivalency to a specific OEM part number.
Another example below:

Direct Shift Gearbox (DSG) Transmission Oil (LiquiMoly) - 1 Liter

LiquiMoly brand DSG fluid. These transmissions are recommended to be serviced every 20k miles. This fluid meets all recommended VW / Audi specifications. NOTE: Sold per liter. 6 liters required

www.urotuning.com

LiquiMoly brand DSG fluid. These transmissions are recommended to be serviced every 20k miles. This fluid meets all recommended VW / Audi specifications.
NOTE: Sold per liter. 6 liters required for a fluid change.
OE Part # G05-552-9A2 / G05 552 9A2 / G055529A2
Liqui Moly Part #'s LM20044 / LM3640

They do the same with engine oil so you can get non genuine and have good confidence it will work as expected. The wording from Castrol is a bit vague for me

Others here may be more risk tolerant than me, its your car so your choice.
A quick google of "Castrol TRANSMAX Nissan cvt" shows a number of similar conversations, some say its OK, some say its quieter than the OEM, some say noisier, some say use it, some say dont.

 

[PaulC72]

Its your choice , its your gearbox.

I know Castrol is reputable however the manufacturer (Nissan), like others, only supports their tested oil. This comes up on just about every car forum and its up to you whether you want to take the punt.

Its the same answer for me regardless of the car, I buy either genuine fluids or other fluids that state manufacturer standards on the bottle. Eg Volkswagen publish specific oil specs and other vendors meet these.
I personally wont rely on words like "should be OK" or "my local mechanic said."
If its a chemical engineer who works in the field it might be a different answer.

The data sheet for the Castrol uses language like "should be suitable" however this is different to how vendors work. It also states "Suitable for use in continuously variable transmissions (CVT) of most Japanese passenger cars and can be recommended for use in most passenger cars fitted with push belt technologies."

The data shows https://msdspds.castrol.com/bpglis/...74D1061802586AF0055100A/$File/bpxe-9rv9fp.pdf
shows
Product Performance Claims
Suitable for use where the following are called for: Toyota CVT Fluid TC, FENissan CVT Fluid NS-1, NS-2, NS-3

If its no risk then ask the mechanic to warrant it for a couple of years and see how quickly he backpedals.

A different approach is what VAG do:
As an example
https://www.vagparts.com.au/products/g052182a2-gear-oil <-- genuine with the part number G052182A2
https://www.europaparts.com/dsg-transmission-fluid-liqui-moly-1-liter.html
The language used here is

Approvals & Recommendations:​

• Volkswagen: G052529A2, G052182, TL52182

It also states

• OEM: G052182A2
• MPN: LM20044

So they are basically clearly stating its recommended and approved with equivalency to a specific OEM part number.
Another example below:

Direct Shift Gearbox (DSG) Transmission Oil (LiquiMoly) - 1 Liter

LiquiMoly brand DSG fluid. These transmissions are recommended to be serviced every 20k miles. This fluid meets all recommended VW / Audi specifications. NOTE: Sold per liter. 6 liters required

www.urotuning.com

LiquiMoly brand DSG fluid. These transmissions are recommended to be serviced every 20k miles. This fluid meets all recommended VW / Audi specifications.
NOTE: Sold per liter. 6 liters required for a fluid change.
OE Part # G05-552-9A2 / G05 552 9A2 / G055529A2
Liqui Moly Part #'s LM20044 / LM3640

They do the same with engine oil so you can get non genuine and have good confidence it will work as expected. The wording from Castrol is a bit vague for me

Others here may be more risk tolerant than me, its your car so your choice.
A quick google of "Castrol TRANSMAX Nissan cvt" shows a number of similar conversations, some say its OK, some say its quieter than the OEM, some say noisier, some say use it, some say dont.

I don't disagree and have never suggested anyone use any particular oil only shown the facts I have to hand to offer an informed option for them to look into and satifsy themselves, I personally queried Castrol oil and they took my car details etc and confirmed it would be ok.
If I was to use it I'd be closer confident that it would be ok than another random oil, would I do it for the saving who knows.
I may run the flush with it to see what happens I doubt it'll go pop more slip and that would identify it as not suitable.
I'm no mechanic I base on what I deem to he logical abd take note of others experienceabd actual mechanics who wirk on other Nissan cvts regularly.
But using the OEM stuff every 30000 miles doesn't feel that bad really anyway.

It's easy to discount things I read a similar post on here about Mannol oil, one user had been using it for ages with no issues another had slippage so experience is different or just luck works for some...maybe

All you can do is what YOU feel is the right answer based upon your own research of information available.

 

[Parentalnightmare]

Its probably accessible via an OBD 11 scanner, what does the owners manual say ?

Would you believe it,the owners manual says check level on dipstick, idiots.
But I'll try the OBD port. Might say. Thanks

 

[Some Guy]

Would you believe it,the owners manual says check level on dipstick, idiots.
But I'll try the OBD port. Might say. Thanks

A quick google showed this for checking the Juke - https://www.jukeforums.com/threads/...text=you check the fluid by,need to add to it.

I suspect there is a level bolt up higher on the transmission (not the drain) and you remove this with the car running (based on the reference) and if fluid drips a bit you are good. I have seen this on other Nissan CVT's and later versions of the E52 (I think). It looks like its one where you warm up the fluid and then try and fill it and it either takes fluid or drips it out.
Hope this helps, its not a car I am familiar with.

 

[Some Guy]

I don't disagree and have never suggested anyone use any particular oil only shown the facts I have to hand to offer an informed option for them to look into and satifsy themselves, I personally queried Castrol oil and they took my car details etc and confirmed it would be ok.
If I was to use it I'd be closer confident that it would be ok than another random oil, would I do it for the saving who knows.
I may run the flush with it to see what happens I doubt it'll go pop more slip and that would identify it as not suitable.
I'm no mechanic I base on what I deem to he logical abd take note of others experienceabd actual mechanics who wirk on other Nissan cvts regularly.
But using the OEM stuff every 30000 miles doesn't feel that bad really anyway.

It's easy to discount things I read a similar post on here about Mannol oil, one user had been using it for ages with no issues another had slippage so experience is different or just luck works for some...maybe

All you can do is what YOU feel is the right answer based upon your own research of information available.

Agreed. I wasn't trying to state anyone was right or wrong as there is no clear right or wrong in this conversation, its opinion and peoples risk tolerance. As I noted for VW oils I am Ok with appropriate substitutions however there is so much crap flying around CVT's I would rather spend the extra $$$ every couple of years.

 

[Parentalnightmare]

A quick google showed this for checking the Juke - https://www.jukeforums.com/threads/transmission-fluid-check.222132/#:~:text=you check the fluid by,need to add to it.

I suspect there is a level bolt up higher on the transmission (not the drain) and you remove this with the car running (based on the reference) and if fluid drips a bit you are good. I have seen this on other Nissan CVT's and later versions of the E52 (I think). It looks like its one where you warm up the fluid and then try and fill it and it either takes fluid or drips it out.
Hope this helps, its not a car I am familiar with.

I'll look into it, thank you.

 

[pocitrocket]

Hi guys, very informative thread but I do have just 1 question,?
Where can I find info on the 4wd 3.5 e52 gearboxes?
Does it use the same fluid/filter combos as the 2wd variants?

 

[Some Guy]

its likely the same transmission however the 4WD would have a transfer case and a diff that also need servicing every now and then. I would take a look at the service manual, there are a few links to a hosted version on this website

 

[Swanny73]

HI guys. Just reading through this thread and i found it very interesting. However, I (think i did it right) checked my oil level outside the house yesterday and it seemed to be well above the cross hatched area on my E52 About an inch further up the dipstick is the work HOT which was roughly where the oil was. Now from what im reading here that is way too high and overfilled, am i correct??? Plus also on my dipstick head it says to use NS2 oil. Here your saying NS3 oil???. Im really getting confused with this beautiful machine. Can anyone with in-depth knowledge reply with the correct things i need to know please. Im starting to get worried especially as when i select reverse it tends to lag before giving drive which according to other threads are signs the gearbox is on its way out. Have i bought an expensive "needs a new gearbox" vehicle?
Thanks for reading.

 

[Swanny73]

HI guys. Just reading through this thread and i found it very interesting. However, I (think i did it right) checked my oil level outside the house yesterday and it seemed to be well above the cross hatched area on my E52 About an inch further up the dipstick is the work HOT which was roughly where the oil was. Now from what im reading here that is way too high and overfilled, am i correct??? Plus also on my dipstick head it says to use NS2 oil. Here your saying NS3 oil???. Im really getting confused with this beautiful machine. Can anyone with in-depth knowledge reply with the correct things i need to know please. Im starting to get worried especially as when i select reverse it tends to lag before giving drive which according to other threads are signs the gearbox is on its way out. Have i bought an expensive "needs a new gearbox" vehicle?
Thanks for reading.

Ok, having done some more digging ive found out why my car says NS2 cvt oil, Its because its pre 2013 when NS3 oil was introduced into the gearbox's.

 

[Some Guy]

Hi, If you ring Nissan directly they say NS3 is now recommended over NS2 for all use cases (at least for Elgrands) and its a lot cheaper. As you have noted it did not exist for earlier gearboxes. When you measure the oil the oil must be warm (drive the car for 10-15 minutes) and the engine is running. If the engine is off you will see it reading high which appears to be what you are describing. You may also be using old fluid or a filter which may explain the stalling.

BTW I am not an expert or a mechanic however the above worked for me and the car is still running.
There are links in here to the service manual for you to read directly from sources as well

 

[Kittenkaboodall]

Has anybody tried an alternative with good results?
I did search and see one person who tried an alternative and it didn’t work out so they ended up flushing it all back to NS3 in the end… I can’t remember what brand they used but it wasn’t one I recognised, not a Castro/Mobil or anything like that.
Curious if anyone had been brave enough

 

[Some Guy]

There are few threads debating it, basically do you want to risk an expensive transmission over a few hundred dollars every 2-3 years.
some say yes, some say no. I havent seen anyone categorically state they have used non genuine on an ongoing basis. A couple of other forums I poked through for different Nissan and other cvts had a similar theme.

 

[WhatsThisFor]

Has anybody tried an alternative with good results?
I did search and see one person who tried an alternative and it didn’t work out so they ended up flushing it all back to NS3 in the end… I can’t remember what brand they used but it wasn’t one I recognised, not a Castro/Mobil or anything like that.
Curious if anyone had been brave enough

Jonnie 88 tried a cheaper oil option, didn’t go well.

https://forum.elgrandoc.uk/threads/cvt-auto-oil.39400/

 

[Some Guy]

Yeah I read that one a while ago, the people who want to flush with a cheaper oil have an interesting approach, the CVT holds a bit over 10L of oil and I vaguely recall somewhere that the 3 lots of flushing should cycle 80-90% of the oil so if you flush it twice with crap you may end up with 40-50% cheap oil in it (not sure what the specific maths is) which seems to defeat the purpose of buying the genuine stuff. It seems like you are half in/half out on using genuine. Most vendors dont recommend mixing brands as it can cause unintended side affects as its not been tested , this seems to go against all advice. If you want to go non genuine go fully non genuine (well at least 90%) or go all genuine.

 

[Lpgc]

1. If a gearbox holds 10L of oil and you can only drain 5L then that's only draining half the contents, so if you then refill with 5L of new oil you've changed half the oil, so 5L of old oil remains in it.

2. Run the engine / gearbox so the new and old oil mix, then if you change half the oil again then 2.5L of old oil (25%) remains in the gearbox so you've changed 75% of the oil after 2 changes.

3. Do it again and now you've changed 87.5% of oil and 12.5% (1.25L) of old oil remains after 3 changes.

I went with the 10L example because the figures are the easier to work with than 9L (and 4.5L, 2.25, 1.125L respectively). The figures are correct if on every change you change half the oil/contents, the figures will be a bit different if you change less or more than half the oil on every change... But the percentage figures don't change regardless of number of how much total oil the gearbox holds.

To me, one interesting aspect is the diminishing returns for subsequent oil changes. E.g. 1st change, changes the most oil, 50%, 2nd change effectively only changes 25%, 3rd change only 12.5%. We could go on with more changes but if there was a 4th change it'd only change 6.25%, a 5th change only changes 3.125%, a 6th change only 1.5625%... The 3 changes is a compromise number between expense (of the fluid) and time (to do these changes) with how thorough a fluid change / job is intended on being done.

One owner could come to do their fluid change having had no gearbox problems, maybe the car has been driven lightly, and find that on the first drain the fluid looked like new. Another owner might have noticed some gearbox problems, maybe the car has been driven harshly, and find that on the first drain the fluid smelled slightly burned and was discoloured. Even after 3 changes 12.5% of the old oil remains in the gearbox, so after 3 changes the first owner probably has oil in the gearbox close to Nissan original oil spec but the second owner's oil spec (still containing 12.5% of the bad condition stuff that was drained) is going to be different to that spec. If we expect 3 changes to correct a problem with how the gearbox performs then does this tell us anything about the importance of the spec? I mean the spec is going to be a little different if 12.5% of worn out(?) / contaminated(?) / lost additives(?) / etc oil is mixed with the new compared to if the 12.5% original oil that remains in the gearbox still meats new spec and is mixed with new. Now, even if despite the different conditions of oil that was drained by the first and second owner the 2 gearboxes were in the same condition, if the gearboxes are so fussy about oil spec that putting slightly different spec in can lead to so many problems and gearbox destruction, the first owner's gearbox is likely to last longer than the 2nd owner's gearbox unless the 2nd owner did extra partial flushes/changes (maybe extending the number of flushes/changes to what, 6? If so it makes the fluid change doubly expensive). This is one of the concerns when something mechanical is fussy / intolerant for minor changes in spec of oil/fluid it uses, regular changes are necessary and only a partial change is possible. We expect oil/fluid to be a problem in the CVT. It could be considered a different ball game to a conventional slushbox that might outlast the rest of the vehicle even if it never had a fluid change and for which even a partial fluid change after many years and high mileage simply brings it from the point of running with the old fluid (which as said it might have continued to be fine using for the rest of the life of the vehicle anyway) and new spec.

If CVT oil is stipulated to need 3 partial changes all at once after say 30000 miles, I would think it better from a mechanical point of view to do 1 partial change every 10000 miles. If I bought one I'd do a full 3 flush change after buying it (unless the oil that came out seemed worse than expected in which case I'd do more than 3 flushes) then I would do 1 partial change every 10000 miles instead of the 3 partial changes every 30000 miles and I believe that would be better for the CVT than the stipulated change.