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I would have one tomorrow if they didn't have a DAF variomatic gearbox.
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Everything on EOC is about E50 and E51. Where are the E52s?
- Thread starter CKapasa
- Start date
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- Tags
- e52 lancashire north west
Fewer E52s as they are typically driven by supremely intelligent people. The amount of supremely intelligent people in life is small, hence the lack of E52 around on the streets.
Is the E52 'box reliable enough if one does say bi-yearly oil changes, or say 10K miles max?
Thing is though, even if that was true, you won't know much about its history before it was imported, and even if it did have full service history, I very much doubt an owner would have done uber amounts of CVT oil changes
Thing is though, even if that was true, you won't know much about its history before it was imported, and even if it did have full service history, I very much doubt an owner would have done uber amounts of CVT oil changes
- Messages
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- Tim
- Elgrand
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I have assumed the previous owner of my E52 did nothing to the CVT and am planning maintenance accordingly. Of course that won’t help reverse any damage to an already flogged gearbox but some TLC will mean it has best chance of lasting another 100,000 miles.
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One difference is you could probably fix a DAF variomatic DIY.
- Messages
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I have driven kei cars (660cc) with CVT and it was a terrible experience. To get anywhere at more than walking pace meant foot on the floor and high, constant drone from the engine. Rapid acceleration virtually impossible due to the engine and CVT.
However the E52 is not the same experience.
The larger engine means more torque and most of the time the engine gives the required acceleration while staying below 2,000 rpm. Is it sporty? Not in the slightest. Does it sometimes picks ‘gear/ratio’ that a human wouldn’t? Yes. Is a 3.5L V6 E51 auto a more enjoyable experience? Yes. But I needed a newer car, I love ElGrands and CVT was the only option
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- mark
- Elgrand
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- North East
E52 VIP 300bhp - smooth is the word ! (And a wee bit sporty)
- Messages
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- Mid Yorkshire
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- Simon
- Elgrand
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- Region
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My dad told me about the hire car he and mum hired on their honeymoon on Majorca in the mid/late 60's which had a CVT of the 'rubber band' variety, strange to see the rpms stay the same as speed increased going up the mountain roads.
CVT's can make for better acceleration because the engine can stay at the red line while road speed increases... so engine torque doesn't matter so much it's more just bhp that matters for acceleration. Where-as with a slushbox auto or manual when you change up gear to keep accelerating the rpms drop in the new gear and (at least with today's high revving multivalve engines) bhp is also lower because the engine makes less bhp at lower rpm's (bhp = torque x rpm so when you change up gear bhp is lower and could say especially with modern multivalve engines).
Can make for better mpg than even a manual box by keeping RPM below (say) 1500 during most driving conditions, but that's usually because effectively 'top gear' is a higher gear than top gear on a manual. If we fitted a manual box with same top gear(ing) it could likely be more economical than the CVT.
Can be reliable, some 90's small engine'd Honda cars had CVT's that never seemed to fail, I converted some to LPG.
But there are a lot of buts... If a slushbox automatic gives the driver a bit less control than a manual gearbox a CVT gives even less. Not usually as reliable as a slushbox auto or manual with a bigger engine, especially if you use the power or tow. In some places there is a lot of knowledge about fixing slushboxes but not so much CVT's. If you look at the design of some types of CVT that use a metal 'band' made of many separate 'chain links' and note that the chain is designed to push not pull and the links designed to 'lock up straight' when being pushed it's easy to imagine a slight failure of one link in the chain meaning total lack of drive.
I also take the view that if something mechanical needs oil, then if it needs a very specific oil to be reliable it probably isn't that reliable even with the very specific type of oil. But this may be a moot point in this discussion because its likely that people with failing CVTs who tried a differerent spec oil went on to blame the oil for the eventual failure.
Before I got into Elgrands I had several Chrysler Grand Voyagers. The automatic slushboxes in them are a known unreliable / weak point of the vehicle, the worst part of the vehicle. Front wheel drive so a transaxle (including the diff) really more than just a gearbox. The problem with them was due to both the gearbox being weak and the diff being weak. I changed 4 or 5 gearboxes on them, more or a pita because I had to fit the gearbox than the cost of buying the geabox because there were plenty Grand Voyagers in the scrapyards and the gearboxes were not expensive to buy from a scrapyard. I even made one good gearbox out of 2 bad ones, and made one good transaxle out of one good gearbox with a broken diff and one good diff with a broken gearbox. I still have Grand Voyager, I use it as an outside seating area and storage area. it was perfectly fine when I parked it up, I parked it up because I didn't want to use it for towing... Some of my Grand Voyager gearbox failures occurred soon after towing. This was one of the reasons I got into Elgrands, I knew E51's had fairly bulletproof gearboxes and diffs.
CVT's can make for better acceleration because the engine can stay at the red line while road speed increases... so engine torque doesn't matter so much it's more just bhp that matters for acceleration. Where-as with a slushbox auto or manual when you change up gear to keep accelerating the rpms drop in the new gear and (at least with today's high revving multivalve engines) bhp is also lower because the engine makes less bhp at lower rpm's (bhp = torque x rpm so when you change up gear bhp is lower and could say especially with modern multivalve engines).
Can make for better mpg than even a manual box by keeping RPM below (say) 1500 during most driving conditions, but that's usually because effectively 'top gear' is a higher gear than top gear on a manual. If we fitted a manual box with same top gear(ing) it could likely be more economical than the CVT.
Can be reliable, some 90's small engine'd Honda cars had CVT's that never seemed to fail, I converted some to LPG.
But there are a lot of buts... If a slushbox automatic gives the driver a bit less control than a manual gearbox a CVT gives even less. Not usually as reliable as a slushbox auto or manual with a bigger engine, especially if you use the power or tow. In some places there is a lot of knowledge about fixing slushboxes but not so much CVT's. If you look at the design of some types of CVT that use a metal 'band' made of many separate 'chain links' and note that the chain is designed to push not pull and the links designed to 'lock up straight' when being pushed it's easy to imagine a slight failure of one link in the chain meaning total lack of drive.
I also take the view that if something mechanical needs oil, then if it needs a very specific oil to be reliable it probably isn't that reliable even with the very specific type of oil. But this may be a moot point in this discussion because its likely that people with failing CVTs who tried a differerent spec oil went on to blame the oil for the eventual failure.
Before I got into Elgrands I had several Chrysler Grand Voyagers. The automatic slushboxes in them are a known unreliable / weak point of the vehicle, the worst part of the vehicle. Front wheel drive so a transaxle (including the diff) really more than just a gearbox. The problem with them was due to both the gearbox being weak and the diff being weak. I changed 4 or 5 gearboxes on them, more or a pita because I had to fit the gearbox than the cost of buying the geabox because there were plenty Grand Voyagers in the scrapyards and the gearboxes were not expensive to buy from a scrapyard. I even made one good gearbox out of 2 bad ones, and made one good transaxle out of one good gearbox with a broken diff and one good diff with a broken gearbox. I still have Grand Voyager, I use it as an outside seating area and storage area. it was perfectly fine when I parked it up, I parked it up because I didn't want to use it for towing... Some of my Grand Voyager gearbox failures occurred soon after towing. This was one of the reasons I got into Elgrands, I knew E51's had fairly bulletproof gearboxes and diffs.
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- Messages
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- 1,532
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- Location
- Manchester
- First Name
- Russell
- Elgrand
- E51
- Region
- North West
It's a bit like The People's Front of Judhea and the Judhean People's Front....splitters!
- Messages
- 28
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- 76
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- 93
- Location
- sunderland
- First Name
- mark
- Elgrand
- E52
- Region
- North East
Having owned Toyota Estima (Lucida 2.2 diesel) then E50, E51 and now E52 I can only give a personal opinion that they are totally different beasts.
Toyota was a quite basic vehicle, reasonable fuel consumption, with useful seating configurations but major drawback was (mine was 2 wheel drive) drivability especially in wet conditions, despite trying different tyre combinations I found it to be unsuitable (could be a good drift car!)
E50 (3.0 diesel Neo 4wd) was a definite step up in terms of drivability and comfort with great seating configuration, and adequate fuel consumption for a heavy vehicle.
E51 (3.5 petrol 4wd) again very spacious with good seating configuration (good for camper conversion) bit nippier and quieter than last two and has more of a cult following.
E52 (3.5 petrol 4wd 300bhp VIP) much more luxurious and far better to drive especially long distance cruising and better cornering, more toys and a more modern style but more of a luxury people carrier (probably only the latest Alphards can compete with added bonus of being able to laugh at VW series buses).
End of the day it is a personal choice governed by what you want to use your vehicle for with versatility, practicality and luxury all major considerations.
Hope this helps a bit with comparisons.
PS. Also have Toyota Voxy (ok I know boo hiss!) 2.0 petrol 2wd.
Good compromise if you want a versatile van/camper/people carrier runabout and a much closer comparison to Toyota Estima/Lucida derivatives but not in same league as Elgrands
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- Messages
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- 224
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- 83
- Location
- Isle of Wight
- First Name
- Tim
- Elgrand
- E52
- Region
- South East
I checked out the Voxy and other similar Japanese imports to replace my E51 before seeing the light and buying an E52. As you say, they are not in the same league as Elgrands.