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Please say a prayer: 20mph in Wales

Tim C said:
Got to admit I have found something cyclists hate more than Audis. Completely silent Audis they can't hear coming up behind them.....!!
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There are very few quiet Audis. They make them quiet at the factory but then the cnuts that get them put a vroom tish bang exhaust on them. No doubt they will find a way to add this noise to electric ones too.
 
No surprise Ebikes and scooters seem to be becoming increasingly popular with campers... Strap a couple to the back of a campervan and you can park the campervan some distance from a town / tourist spot and ride to them without breaking a sweat. Big campervan too big for the supermarket car park, no problem leave the campervan parked in the scenic layby spot down the road and use the bike/scooter to go into town or to the beach. Or stay on a campsite and let the kids ride them around the campsite day and night :rolleyes:
 
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Lpgc said:
No surprise Ebikes and scooters seem to be becoming increasingly popular with campers... Strap a couple to the back of a campervan and you can park the campervan some distance from a town / tourist spot and ride to them without breaking a sweat. Or stay on a campsite and let the kids ride them around the campsite day and night :rolleyes:
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I found that more and more campsites and coastal towns are banning them ( although the authorities in said towns allow some to hire them out: unamused:)scooters that is
 
Highway Dave said:
I found that more and more campsites and coastal towns are banning them ( although the authorities in said towns allow some to hire them out: unamused:)scooters that is
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I don't have a campervan or an Ebike/scooter but I can see the appeal for campers.

Kids using them for joyriding around campsites was an observation from this year and last year's holiday with my touring caravan, seems to be a growing number of campers that have them. Heh, supposed to be a 5mph limit and a one way system on this one site but groups of kids were biking / scootering around day and night in their pyjamas at 20mph going the wrong way on the one way system.
 
I don't think it's the end of the world to be honest. I can still drive at 30 in the Elgrand if I want to (as my clocks are still in kph!!)

They are not going to change it, so may as well give it a chance to seeing it does make a difference to accidents. I didnt vote for it, but its not an unreasonable suggestion in many ways. As one of the 7 people in Wales who works on-call tissue typing potential cadaveric organ donors for transplantation, a significant proportion of my calls are following RTAs. Getting called out can by inconvenient, but I always think some other family is having a much worse night then me. Maybe this change will mean less families having to make difficult decisions they werent expecting. Who knows?
 
Lpgc said:
Electric bikes can go fast, seems most towns have menace riders that would soon be moaning (probably literally while licking their wounds) if car drivers didn't follow the rules... while they do crazy over/under-takes, ignore traffic lights and crossings, use oncoming traffic lanes at junctions, ride on the right of keep left signs and switch between driving on the road and causeway. Any kind of riding as long as they don't have to slow for anything.
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If the motor can propel the bike faster than 15.5mph, it's classed as a motorcycle or moped and to go on the road (or pavement! 🤪) needs to be registered and taxed. The rider needs a driving licence and to wear a crash helmet.
 
MarkT said:
If the motor can propel the bike faster than 15.5mph, it's classed as a motorcycle or moped and needs to be registered and taxed. The rider needs a driving licence and to wear a crash helmet.
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Nearly every takeaway rider seems to ride an illegal ebike too. It is all completely bewildering to me - if I want a takeaway I go and get it! Don't understand the appeal!!
 
Tim C said:
It is all completely bewildering to me - if I want a takeaway I go and get it! Don't understand the appeal!!
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Wha? If someone can't be bothered to cook, and surely they can't be bothered to drive there, queue up and drive home!

Oh, wait, you drive an Elgrand - any excuse 👍😀
 
MarkT said:
Wha? If someone can't be bothered to cook, and surely they can't be bothered to drive there, queue up and drive home!
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Correct.
MarkT said:
Oh, wait, you drive an Elgrand - any excuse
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Incorrect. For my favourite Indian or Chinese takeaway I would have to use a car park that can be dodgy and walk for 5 minutes, in addition to that the fuel consumption would only be slightly less than the delivery charge.

On the plus side I don't live in Wales and once of my estate can do 30 🤣🤣🤣.
 
Tim C said:
I don't think it's the end of the world to be honest. I can still drive at 30 in the Elgrand if I want to (as my clocks are still in kph!!)

They are not going to change it, so may as well give it a chance to seeing it does make a difference to accidents. I didnt vote for it, but its not an unreasonable suggestion in many ways. As one of the 7 people in Wales who works on-call tissue typing potential cadaveric organ donors for transplantation, a significant proportion of my calls are following RTAs. Getting called out can by inconvenient, but I always think some other family is having a much worse night then me. Maybe this change will mean less families having to make difficult decisions they werent expecting. Who knows?
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I still think comparing Cardiff and the 20mph is totally different to comparing the Valleys or some Ceredigion area.
Going through Yystrad Myanch or Pontllanfriath is totally different to going through Radyr or Gabalfa in terms of speed bumps, broken roads, traffic lights, traffic volume, unimpeded flow etc etc.

You could also argue that a nasty accident prevented at doing 20mph, is negated by one caused by someone doing a brisk overtake of a 20mph driver, when they wouldn't have done prior. Yes, a driver problem, but just replacing one issue with another. Of course, if traveling at 30mph was actually a 'problem'.
It's just the on-size-fits-all approach is where it fails. As probably most of the 400 thousand or so who have signed the petition would say, no one has an issue in congested high streets/schools etc (although the 'school run' nutcases more than make up for that), roads where you can't really do even 20mph, anyway, but putting in them in ghost town streets seems silly. Plus now adding more traffic on the road- literally every car on the road today in Wales will have been on the road longer than it would have been last week, for the same journey. Multiply that by a million road users, that's a lot more traffic over a 24 hour period. I wonder if more accidents (of any kind) will occur due to that statistic.
 
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Elgraman said:
It's just the on-size-fits-all approach is where it fails.
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I reckon that'll be solved by councils putting in more exceptions, reinstating 30 limits on roads with good flow and sightlines.
 
From an old Daily Taff paper…

“Wales to reduce speed limit to 20 MPH to allow time for drivers to read the road signs.”
 
MarkT said:
I reckon that'll be solved by councils putting in more exceptions, reinstating 30 limits on roads with good flow and sightlines.
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I've read though that although the Welsh Gov't said the 20 zone 'blanket' is 'guidance', it's multiple barriers to get a road exemption?
 
MarkT said:
The criteria are here. Seem fairly common sense and simple, with flexibility for councils to take account of local factors. I particularly like the part time limits...
https://www.gov.wales/setting-exceptions-20mph-default-speed-limit-restricted-roads-html
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Seems like 11,026 hoops to jump through https://www.gov.wales/setting-exceptions-20mph-default-speed-limit-restricted-roads-html#105968

also note the line about 'Speed limits of 40mph and above should not generally be changed at this stage, but their limits may need to be reviewed after 17 September 2023 and following the publication of the revised SLSLW guidance.'

I also love that word 'reviewed'. I'm sure they don't mean 'increased'?

Totally nuts.

Also, 'part time speed limits' sure will be interesting......when current 30mph roads sees clueless drivers not being able to read permanent 30 signs, but still think they're 20s. Ditto national speed limit ones too lol I'm sure part time speed limits will send some over the edge :)

Like the Covid restrictions (not wanting to go politics), but once freedoms were given up so easily- and willingly- the door opens and never closes.
I was reading an old adage about a dog whose long chain link lead had one extra link removed every now and again which he hardly noticed. Eventually, the poor dog chocked as he'd had every link removed and had no freedom at all.


The whole thing is plainly to get you out of your car. Making driving so frustrating and unbearable you don't bother if you can avoid it.
Safety, emissions, whatever hog wash to justify it is just smoke and mirrors.
 
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Yes of course, it's a government conspiracy, all part of their compliance agenda blah de blah 🙄
 
P4ddy said:
Yes of course, it's a government conspiracy, all part of their compliance agenda blah de blah 🙄
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Yes, I kind of agree with you. Although I wouldn't use your own word- conspiracy. More to get you out of your car. Compliance-as you suggest it is- is of course a requirement.
 
MarkT said:
If the motor can propel the bike faster than 15.5mph, it's classed as a motorcycle or moped and to go on the road (or pavement! 🤪) needs to be registered and taxed. The rider needs a driving licence and to wear a crash helmet.
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Never seen an Ebike with registration plates though and many seem to be capable of a going a lot quicker than 15.5mph.

Apparently it's easy to disable the speed limiter on many of them and a lot of vendors seem more than willing to assist buyers/owners to do that.

I might be wrong but there seems to also be a 250watt motor legal limit for unregistered Ebikes, yet anyone can buy a 1000watt one from any of many different vendors / shops / Ebay sellers, etc and expect the vendor to tell them how to disable it's speed limiter or at least to tell them where to look online for simple instructions to disable any speed limiter.

I wouldn't mind one, might get me back into riding bikes for fitness.. go on a bike ride using pedal power, get knacked or bored can just turn around and use electric power to get home lol, maybe switch to electric for going up hills until fitness improved
 
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