All the time we're getting new members and all the time getting the same questions. New members can't even see most of the in-depth information on this forum until they've done at least 10 posts or paid for premium membership, so they can't search for relevant information on the forum and we can't even link to relevant information for them.... instead every newb with an interest in a particular aspect of ownership (LPG conversion in this case) asks the same old questions.
If someone came on this (or other) forums 5 years ago wondering about LPG conversions and LPG availability they'd probably have all the same thoughts. I've heard the same concerns for 20 years. In fact we even seem to be missing one of the usual concerns (which contradicts the other concerns...) - The other concern is that if LPG becomes too popular the government will increase duty on it and make it as expensive as petrol. Nope, never happened and isn't going to happen. LPG will still be a massive saving compared to petrol or diesel in years to come.
Since then, those that converted have been saving money all the time. Ask me again in another 5 years and I expect it to be much the same story, and for those who converted today to have been running on half price fuel for the last 5 years. You can wait until next year to see if LPG is still being sold, it will be, and by next year you'll have been running on petrol paying double what a great many of us have paid per litre of fuel for a year.
Much confusion about the 'Autogas' Shell and Calor gas partnership. That finished years ago and is old news. Autogas does not mean LPG, it was a brand name referring to the Shell / Calor joint venture, there are various threads about that on this and many other forums.
I've converted over 600 Elgrands to LPG, mostly for members of this forum. I reckon the conversions I've done on Elgrands have saved their combined owners a few million quid in fuel bills.
I made myself a member of this forum after converting an Elgrand for a local owner around 5 years ago, I already had the best reputation for getting the best results converting vehicles to LPG and for putting right problems that other installers couldn't put right on vehicles they had converted, I was already the go-to guy known to be able to fix/sort any LPG conversion problem, people would already drive hundreds of miles to me. I was also already the go-to guy for converting 'technically demanding' (to convert properly) vehicles, engineer types etc would already drive hundreds of miles to me to have me rather than their more local installers convert their demanding vehicles. I joined this forum after converting a local Elgrand, then converted an Elgrand for
@George322 who was already a member of this forum, and I haven't looked back much since, I've gone on to convert 600 Elgrands. But around 5 years ago on this forum, other members whom had a;ready had their Elgrands converted to LPG by other firms were under the impression that it was normal to have to return to their installer after 1000 miles for a 'free check', to have 'teething problems' with their LPG conversions which would mean additional returns to their installer (and they expected that!), and to have to return to their installer every year for a tune up and service (which some have been saying was necessary until recently). I changed LPG conversion customers expectations about all of that but only for my customers, because even now if you have an LPG conversion fitted elsewhere you may be asked to return for a '1000 mile free check', will be asked to return with any 'teething problems', may be asked to return to them every year for servicing (in some cases the warranty will be voided if that isn't done). Meanwhile I've converted 600 Elgrands and in the few cases (like 1%) of those I've converted having a problem I have got in my car and fixed that problem on the customer's doorstep. I have been to Truro (Cornwall), Bristol, Manchester, Brighton and Birmingham. No other installer could give the same service, instead you can expect to return to them, or they would always be driving to customers and not making any money and everyone here knows it.
There are some on forum with tech experience who had an LPG conversion fitted elsewhere before my time on this forum who used to think it was normal to have teething problems and to have to visit the installer to have problems fixed, some even had to do so themselves.. but they seldom mention the problems they had ongoing for up to 12 months during which they sought my help and teachings trying to get it fixed themselves (meaning with my help, when they had their Elgrand converted to LPG not by me but by another firm). Now I've taught them some basics about fuel trims they do mention that their own fuel trims seem correct, I taught them some basics about fuel trims, but then go one step further and assume fuel trims are correct on LPG conversions on Elgrands fitted by other LPG firms when they haven't had any diagnostic equipment connected to any of those Elgrands (and probably haven't even seen any of those Elgrands - but I certainly have when I've fixed some of them!)... while ignoring some of the other things I say about correct LPG conversions like the reducer should be fitted low down in the engine bay, injector inlets should be close to petrol injectors and the ECU should be capable of at least closely following the petrol fuelling strategy including calculation of gas injector pulse duration on each cylinder based on individual petrol injector pulse durations and able to compensate for the fact that Elgrands have atmospheric pressure referenced fuel pressure while the LPG components have manifold pressure referenced gas pressure. For a correct install you cannot pick and choose which aspects of what I say is correct you want to go with, anything else is a compromise, yet some think they can pick and choose because it seems OK to them. Then they probably wonder why I get the most customers and why I am considered the top LPG conversion expert on this and other forums including LPG forum. When most LPG pros have a problem they ask their suppliers for help, when suppliers want to know something or have a problem they ask me.
We've been through why I fit by far the biggest capacity tank compared to other installers several times already. I won't repeat all the details about things I do to make sure tanks I fit on Elgrands hold a lot of gas here, here I will only mention that one of the main reasons the tanks I fit hold more gas is because they are wider than the tanks other installers fit on Elgrands and wider doesn't necessarily mean deeper. The volume of a spare wheel design tank roughly equates to the old cylinder volume equation which is pi times radius squared times depth (pi r squared length). Remember what square means. 2 squared is 4, 4 squared is 16. 3 Squared is 9, 6 squared is 36... If we double the width of a cylinder it will hold 4 times as much (of whatever the cylinder might hold, such as LPG). If we double the depth of the cylinder it will only hold double the amount. Width makes much more difference to tank capacity than depth, width is the most important factor. A wider LPG tank mounted under the rear of an Elgrand won't be any closer to the floor than a half width tank of the same depth, they are both the same depth so both have the same ground clearance yet one will hold 4 times as much gas as the other. I am the only installer who fits the widest spare wheel (flattened cylinder shape) tank made on Elgrands, it fits with millimeters to spare between itself and the rear valance and between itself and the rear diff. Other installers don't fit tanks so precisely, they don't fit tanks to the same exacting positions, so they wouldn't fit this tank that is at least 40mm and in some case 90mm wider than the tank they fit. They wouldn't take the time to make it slope upwards slightly toward the rear either. I have different methods to most installers. The bigger the onboard LPG holding capacity the lower the chances of running out of LPG and having to run on petrol. Not many LPG conversions would ever be done if range on LPG were only 50 miles (which might equate to a tank on an Elgrand of say 14 litres) because the owner would expect to have to run on petrol most of the time... That might serve as an example as to why a big tank for good range on LPG is important when it comes to saving money... which is the whole point.
Don't forget the double whammy of inconvenience having to visit an installer in case of 1000 mile free checks, teething problems, ongoing issues that in some cases have been known to last 12 months (including such occasion that happened to someone posting above who says good things about other firms), while at the same time spending money on petrol instead of saving money on LPG. Don't forget that cost saving calculation speadsheets etc you may find, particularly on this forum, assume being able to run on LPG all the time, which probably isn't possible if your LPG tank is small because you'll probably run out of LPG and have to run on petrol. Don't forget that warm up time also involves running on petrol, along with any time you spend driving when your LPG tank is empty, as well as any time the LPG system seems to be 'acting up'.
With the removable extra LPG tank setup I recently mentioned on this forum (but there's no point linking to it for new members because they won't be able to follow the link) I have range of above 700 miles on LPG. In truth I could have as much range as I wanted. It would of course become impractical to fill the interior with LPG tanks and switch between them as needed, but if I did then with the 'extra tank' ability I could have an easy 4000 mile or (much) more range. At some point I may offer such additional/removable tank to my customers, other installers customers won't be offered things like that (I doubt they've ever even fitted a hanson fitting lol). There was a guy a few months ago who said 'We can't all be waiting for you to do our conversions Simon when you're so busy". He got booked in elsewhere very quickly, I think he had it done about 2 weeks later. In the meantime he was saying things like "I might have a vapour take-off fitted so I can run my cooker from the main LPG tank and save money on cheaper gas when I'm camping". No mate, only I can do vapour take-off's. "I might ask them to fit the big tank you fit". No mate, only I fit the big tank. Seems happy with it, if it was one I converted I wouldn't be happy with it, I'd notice the difference straight away and change components and setup as soon as I could get around to it... I know that because I have seen and connected with diagnostics equipment to other Elgrands the same firm he used for LPG conversion converted, in any case I know the usual mistakes they all make. But to the average guy or one who I've taught a few basics (who now seem to think they know more than they do) it might seem all good, especially the tank capacity and range which are better than their own capacity and range is but still several gallons and about 100 miles less range than the tank I fit for all my customers. You see a few time served plasterers in Yellow Pages, both have good reviews, we wouldn't expect much difference between them. LPG conversions are a different matter, the usual 'they must all be about the same' doesn't seem to apply, yet some people think it must still apply. I can't fall out with such people because if I didn't know the situation I might also think the difference between 2 LPG convertors would be like 2 plasterers, yet by now I would expect some people to have read enough of the things I've said and recognised the truths in what I've said to know the difference.
