In the market again...... or the dark side??

[Danalexa2731]

Hey all,

Several years ago I had to sell my beloved E51 (profile pic)

It was a great car, a 4wd black leather. I'm now on the cusp of buying another 2009 4wd E51.

It was a good example, and we were on top of maintenance etc, though a few minor electrical gremlins did start to creep in (rear window motor / flickering dash light)

While we have been looking my wife has said the forbidden words (Alphard and Vellfire) a few times... she's conducted this exercise in the toyota group... SO...

Other than the price / drive / feel / looks why would YOU still choose an E51 over an S20 Alphard or Vellfire (3.5 v6 ofc). Are they really more reliable? The E51 is pretty dependable right!

So what keeps you with the ellie / what do you love about it

Apologies if controversial!!!

 

[WhatsThisFor]

Hey all,

Several years ago I had to sell my beloved E51 (profile pic)

It was a great car, a 4wd black leather. I'm now on the cusp of buying another 2009 4wd e51.

While we have been looking my wife has said the forbidden words (Alphard and Vellfire) a few times... she's conducted this exercise in the toyota group... SO...

Other than the price / drive / feel / looks why would YOU still choose an E51 over an S20 Alphard or Vellfire (3.5 v6 ofc).

Apologies if controversial!!!

Dogneros the man to ask, he has had both.

 

[WhatsThisFor]

 

[Danalexa2731]

@dognero I believe this counts as a summons? would love a perspective. I'm a huge fan of the E51 ofcourse, though my wife is laying the arguments on me. Many thanks @WhatsThisFor, though while you are here, what keeps you with the ellie?? I do miss the old car, what a beast it was... the interior was just great for a day van/ occasional camper.

 

[dognero]

Hi mate.
I have had 3 Elgrands and 1 suffered from cat failure. (I think)
The 2009 was the best.
I tend to think of the Velfire 2012 3.5 is what the E52 should have been. (size wise)
Cruise control (limited to 68mph) English screen, 360 cams. Proper opening middle windows.
Mine has all the updated tec the E52 has but in the same size as the Elgrand.
I think that the ride is more comfy.
The 3.5 has a regular gearbox where as the 2.5 has a cvt.
The Velfire is FWD but you can get a 4wd
There are a few variations with regards of the rear seats.
You can get 3 in the middle or 2 then you can get like mine which has 2 in the middle with side on them.
If I was to get another then I would get the 3 seats in the middle or seats with no sides for sleeping in, as the side get in the way if sleeping in the bus.


Depends on how you sleep.
I managed to sleep ok at Nat mods.
My middles do not rotate like the E51.
I don't know if the 3 in the middle version do.
As far as reliability is I have had no problems in the year I have had it.
Regular oil changes etc just like most cars.
Underseal is a must like an Elgrand.
Dont think the rear brakes are as troublesome.
I do miss the rwd
Probably the same mpg as the 51.
Not as much support as there is for the Elgrand as in the forum. (that's why I got an Elgrand in the first place.)
White ones up to a certain year could have problems with the paint peeling off. (google search)
There is not much difference in reality.
Very little to chose from.
I would have another E51 but the newest I could find with all the toys like my last one.
Hope this helps.
If you need to know anything just shout.

 

[Danalexa2731]

That's really helpful thanks so much for your detailed reply. See he 3rd row seats in your image, do the go completely flat? My partner has found an Alphard with two in the middle and no arms so assuming we can sleep in it.

The only issue is it's £6k more than the Elgrand we are looking at! Granted it's a more modern gen than an e51, but for 3 or 4 more years / the badge..

It's interesting that you say there's not much difference in reality, I have heard some say this and others that are staunch one way vs the other.

Have heard some folk comment on toyota reliability vs the e51, though with preventative maintenance and general servicing the Nissan surely is too. I'm not really concerned about the slight differences in mpg given they are both guzzlers!

Essentially I guess our objective is we'd be running this car as a family mover / camper, and running till it stops so keen to explore all options.

Thanks again!

 

[dognero]

Yes the rears do go flat.
On the 20 series there is a leaver on the middle seats that allow you to move them into the middle and then move them further back if needed.

The 20 series has a lever so no pulling the cover off(56 sec into video)

 

[dognero]

North star can make the middles swivel.

 

[Danalexa2731]

That's great thanks. Do you drive 2wd Vellfire? Our Elgrand was the 4wd as stated, and was absolutely brilliant in the snow / on muddy lanes. We live in the peak so the 4wd is required.

Wondering what the consensus is on the 4wd toyota. I have heard it's less pursued than the e51, partly due to it being 2wd already.

 

[Danalexa2731]

Also, for clarity, we have two cars from two reputable dealers we are targetting. I've put a holding deposit in for an e51, though there's a very nice Alphard my missus likes at another dealer, slightly newer and same miles for approx 4k more. e51 vs an s20.

 

[dognero]

Mine is 2wd with all seasons on.
Just live in the town.

 

[Danalexa2731]

Thanks

Think we may go and view an Alphard for science, can easily compare with an E51 having owned one and used it well...

Based on online sleuthing the main pros for the Elgrand are definitely looks, interior, purchase cost and the community seems so much more active than the Toyota...
for the Alph it seems there's this continuing theme of 'reliability' plus the vehicle being a newer gen.... the big negative of course that it's at a premium price wise... whiuch with savings on the purchase of the E51 would easily cover things like LPG / any other tinkering bits / front cats etc..

HMM!

 

[Gutterdog]

Thanks

Think we may go and view an Alphard for science, can easily compare with an E51 having owned one and used it well...

Based on online sleuthing the main pros for the Elgrand are definitely looks, interior, purchase cost and the community seems so much more active than the Toyota...
for the Alph it seems there's this continuing theme of 'reliability' plus the vehicle being a newer gen.... the big negative of course that it's at a premium price wise... whiuch with savings on the purchase of the E51 would easily cover things like LPG / any other tinkering bits / front cats etc..

HMM!

We are toying with selling Stan if you dont mind a dayvan, LPG done by Simon loads of bits done, MoT recent only advisory was drop links which i have got just need to be fitted.

 

[jboy72]

For no particular reason, I am purchasing a 2012 3.5 Vellfire. I have owned two E51 Elgrands previously - an XL and a black Rider look Highway Star, both of which I loved. Why am I swapping? I will be honest, I saw a Premium Seat Vellfire (two tone heated and air cooled middle row seats) and I just could not resist. No more science behind it than that. I have never driven a Vellfire - but if you can wait a couple of weeks I should be able to give you a fairly detailed comparison !

 

[kfgas]

In my case based on what you say about whatever you buy being a long term buy I would be inclined to go for the best condition, highest specced and lowest mileage that I could find for my budget and not worry to much about age.

As regards the Elgrand perhaps look for a fully specced 2009/10 S3 with 30000 or so miles on the clock.

Spend a few thousand on improving the Elgrand such as lpg, upgraded suspension, ice and front cats and maybe afternmarket cruise and a few styling upgrades etc

Looked after this should then give you something that will last for many years and would help to address what are I feel are the Elgrands weak points of poor fuel consumption, floaty ride and cat issues.

Having said that I don't think you will go far wrong with either of them and know that if I was looking to change my E51 for something similar the alpheard would also be on my list.

Really does come down to personal preference and maybe what is about and takes your fancy at the time.

 

[Danalexa2731]

For no particular reason, I am purchasing a 2012 3.5 Vellfire. I have owned two E51 Elgrands previously - an XL and a black Rider look Highway Star, both of which I loved. Why am I swapping? I will be honest, I saw a Premium Seat Vellfire (two tone heated and air cooled middle row seats) and I just could not resist. No more science behind it than that. I have never driven a Vellfire - but if you can wait a couple of weeks I should be able to give you a fairly detailed comparison !

Think we are going to see a 2012 Alphard next week just to have a feel! Will see what that causes haha

 

[Danalexa2731]

We are toying with selling Stan if you dont mind a dayvan, LPG done by Simon loads of bits done, MoT recent only advisory was drop links which i have got just need to be fitted.

Nice, got a photo / deets? Not ruling out anything

 

[Gutterdog]

3.5 with LPG, pioneer head unit and new front speakers, 18 inch qashqai wheels new floor mats, leather seat covers, custom built dayvan unit in the back. I will get some more photos. I had a load on imjur but apparently that's blocked in UK now.

Edit: new boot gas struts so I can stand under it added photo of the rear unit for storage and use as a bed base with the middle seats.

 

[PhillB]

I keep hearing that your “missus likes Alfart” I think if you buy the far more superior E51 Elgrand, as soon as there’s the smallest issue, you’re toast!

 

[Danalexa2731]

I keep hearing that your “missus likes Alfart” I think if you buy the far more superior E51 Elgrand, as soon as there’s the smallest issue, you’re toast!

Exactly - if she doesn't like the Toyota next week it's fair game though ! Let's see....