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AWD or RWD

Lpgc said:
Didn't know that mate, though I have seen values in live data that might point to proportion of torque to front wheels and wondered why those values if it just engages / disengages. If that's the case though, when it does decide to increase torque to front wheels the system doesn't seem as progressive as an Audi or Subaru's... and the front wheel skip during manoeuvring isn't great.
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Yes, I think it directs a bit too much torque to the front when not needed. As the 4x4 is electronically controlled, it releases when the ignition is turned off. This means even if you leave it in lock when parked, it will revert to 2WD, which could be interesting if you have parked on a steep slippery slope... There is a noticeable release of transmission wind up when you turn the ignition off after parking, but that is normal and nothing to worry about.
 
A little more info on the 4WD.
 

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Lpgc said:
Didn't know that mate, though I have seen values in live data that might point to proportion of torque to front wheels and wondered why those values if it just engages / disengages. If that's the case though, when it does decide to increase torque to front wheels the system doesn't seem as progressive as an Audi or Subaru's... and the front wheel skip during manoeuvring isn't great.
Click to expand...
According to the manual, in “auto” the power distribution varies between 0:100 to 50:50 depending on road conditions so I’m thinking you’re right
 
Sparkyrich said:
According to the manual, in “auto” the power distribution varies between 0:100 to 50:50 depending on road conditions so I’m thinking you’re right
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It's interesting, I would say the reaction of the system is nigh on instantaneous, tests I've done at junctions sees no noticable slip from the rears before the front locks up and aids, it's so quick that I can't register it kicking in and feels very very similar to my just sold A6 4.2 V8 Quattro, that system (torsion diff) is considered the pinnacle and I must say I am happy with the Elgrand implementation.

I will also say, in Auto mode, there definitely is added drive most of the time to the fronts, it's noticable around corners not at the limit as it feels a little more similar to how my Audi drove, pulling the front into the corner a little.

Also, when reversing and turning you feel the locking between the front and back (4wd groans on tarmac / manhole covers)

It's a good system for sure
 
Ian H said:
A little more info on the 4WD.
Click to expand...

Do you have the entire manuel in English?

i would also like to find a service manual in English for the e50. I don't mind paying for it.

Thanks
 
Lize said:
Check the date code on your tyres, most likely old Japanese ones and the cause.

I've never managed to get my 2WD Elgrand sideways nor had any problems on wet campsites including on grass with standing water nearly up to the rims and having to drive uphill during severe weather on the IOW.
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The very first thing I did when I bought mine was fit 4 new Bridgestone tyres - it’s rwd but feels planted and I certainly can’t dislodge it on a roundabout in the wet….. i was a little concerned as I was parked up in a field over the jubilee weekend when we last had some serious rain / flooding, but no issues at all getting out. A bit of wheel spin on gravel but nothing too unruly
 
Why carry all that extra weight, for something you might never need.
4 wheel drive with standard tires waist of time.
4 wheel drive with snow tires differed game.
Two wheel drive snow tires or chains or socks.
Come on do you really drive need to drive in the snow sand or grass.
 
mr james said:
Why carry all that extra weight, for something you might never need.
4 wheel drive with standard tires waist of time.
4 wheel drive with snow tires differed game.
Two wheel drive snow tires or chains or socks.
Come on do you really drive need to drive in the snow sand or grass.
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I can nod along with some of your points.

But equally someone could think why not have 4wd, they might never need it... but what about if they ever do need it.

I would disagree with '4wd without special tyres is a waste of time' having driven them with standard tyres in snow and on loose ground in both 2wd and 4wd modes (and plenty other 2/4wd switchable vehicles with standard tyres too). One very snowy day I didn't expect to be using my car, then was asked to rescue my niece who was stuck at work (having had a motorcyclist crash into her car on a roundabout), a lot of 2wd cars were lined up all stuck on various hills, without 4wd I expect the Elgrand would have faired worse in the snow than the average car, with 4wd it was great in the snow even with normal tyres and could easily drive past all of them without slipping. Without 4wd my Elgrand struggles to pull my caravan up an incline with a loose gravelly surface (that I have to negotiate every time I take my caravan out)... it would do it but it would be a bit precarious, especially considering the caravan is between narrow gate posts when 2wd vehicles wheels start to slip, with 4wd it doesn't slip at all.

I probably have driven Elgrands with snow tyres fitted in winter conditions... but I've never driven one in bad snow conditions with snow tyres. So you could say that a 2wd one with snow tyres would beat a 4wd with standard tyres in the snow, and you could link to videos comparing 2wd cars to 4wd cars in snow with different tyres... but I'd still think that the Elgrand with standard tyres but 4wd would have better drive traction than a 2wd Elgrand with snow tyres in snow and the ultimate would be 4wd with snow tyres. Not many UK drivers fit snow tyres at the onset of winter, I don't.

I wanted 4wd because I do a bit of caravaning and a bit of boating (thoughts of pulling a caravan up a slight grassy slope on wet grass, pulling a heavy boat out of the water on a steep wet slippery slipway), because work is at the top of a hill, and because it was effectively a no cost option when I bought both of my 4wd E51's from private sellers. I usually leave it(them) in 2wd mode but I'm pleased to have the ability to switch to 4wd for those rare occasions it's useful (and on some occasions 'useful' has been an understatement).

That's coming from me, somebody who had all manner of powerful cars when I was a bit younger but always back wheel drive stuff, never front wheel drive and never 4wd. In a van I only want 4wd to prevent getting stuck, very rare occasions but invaluable on those occasions.
 
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Plenty of videos on YouTube (and magazine articles in the past) showing that FWD with snow tyres will run rings around a 4WD on summer tyres.

RWD is not so cut and dry as you don't have the weight of the engine over the driven axle.
 
cjholding said:
Plenty of videos on YouTube (and magazine articles in the past) showing that FWD with snow tyres will run rings around a 4WD on summer tyres.

RWD is not so cut and dry as you don't have the weight of the engine over the driven axle.
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I think some of those videos show you one 'type of snow'. Conditions can be very different if we're talking freshly fallen new snow / compacted snow / etc. But still snow isn't gravel, a wet slipway or wet grass.... Maybe for my uses I could have a set of mud tyres (for caravanning in case of wet grass), a set of rally style gravel tyres for pulling it up the gravelly hill and a set of snow tyres to swap on the morning it starts snowing - but I'd rather just press a button on the dash ;-)
 
Having driven a front wheel drive Volvo in heavy snow with Sports tyres on by just engaging Winter mode I can see the appeal of just pushing a button. It pulled away without any trouble but it didn't stop very well on an incline.

Most snow test videos are on compacted snow, which is the lowest grip surface.

Winter tyres are actually marked M&S for mud and snow. All-season tyres will give you most of the benefits only really filling at very low temperatures. Mine are marked with the three peaks logo and M&S; and I can't say I see any need for a sports tyre on my Elgrand.
 
My 2wd with winter tyres.
 
Reverse in a RWD will get you out of trouble.
 
Everything considered, surely we'd at least all agree that 4wd with snow/mud tyres will outperform 2wd with snow/mud tyres, and 4wd with standard tyres will outperform 2wd with standard tyres.

Most videos I see show a comparison between vehicles on the flat... which can accelerate fastest. The flat isn't much of a problem.

If 2wd vehicles with winter tyres have as much grip in snow/mud as 4wd with standard tyres (and show me videos but I still don't think they're fully real world representative)... then still the 4wd will be more likely to be able to move if one axle is on a particularly slippery bit while the other axle isn't (that patch of ice formed by other vehicles trying to get up a hill and spinning wheels for instance).

In my teens I enjoyed driving in the snow - reckless and not something I'd intentionally do now, I'd head up to the moors in a mk5 Cortina (rwd and very light on the back end) just to drive on the little uncleared roads and see what sort of situations I could get myself out of.
 
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