Has the recent tick up in dealer E51 prices trickled down into the used market?

[Importland]

I've noticed Elgrand prices for fresh imports seem to have been ticking up a bit, presumably as sourcing decent ones from Japan on an MPV which ended production (the E51) on a '10 plate must be getting harder. Either a tick up in prices, or, alternatively, the same amount of money before which got a later S3 loaded with options, now seems to fetch the same price, but with far less options on it. Not everywhere of course, just a general feeling/viewing that this is the case.

Has this filtered down into the used market? Non-fresh imports. I still see E51s on various sites which have been listed since what seems like forever, so I'/m wondering is it dealers costs are increasing/getting harder to source good ones, which is now 'passed on ' (despise that phrase) to customers, and maybe the rarity of late of dealer fresh imports has not had time to filter into the private, non fresh import market yet? Or has it?

 

[Adam1990]

You've pretty much hit the nail on the head.

Plus over the last year or 2 it's clear to see the E51's have become very popular ( At least on the south coast ) which I guess will mean good fresh imports will fetch a premium price, I don't know for sure but have heard on a number of occasions importing a car has also become more expensive, so it is inevitable dealers will pass this on to customers bumping up the price.

As for the private sale market it's a bit of a strange one these days no matter what car you're trying to sell, they all appear to hang around a lot longer than they would have years ago. I regularly watch cars for sale on ebay, autotrader, marketplace for months before they finally disappear. We are living in a time where a vast majority of people would rather pay large amounts of money every month for a newer car they change every X amount of months/Years. So from experience every time you go to sell a car now you get far more people trying to hammer you down with low ball/insulting offers.

 

[kfgas]

For quite a while now I have thought that buying a non fresh import with perhaps 1 UK owner that was maybe imported a couple of years or so ago is the most cost effective way to go rather than paying a premium through a dealer for a fresh import.

Having said that there are still some good buys on the auctions in Japan especially if not too concerned about year and target slightly older and higher spec cars, a lot of which have low miles, good grades and a good spec and as a long term buy would probably be a far better buy than the newer S3's that it seems both the UK an Australian dealers target and are willing to pay a premium for as I suppose this is what they see as the easiest sale and what there customers want.

I personally can't see that it makes much difference whether a car is 16 or 19 years old and in many ways would be more inclined to go with the older car if it was better condition, lower miles and a better spec as well as being cheaper although I do accept that there is a difference between S2 and S3

As far as prices I think there are a number of factors which are pushing the prices of E51's up at dealers.

Main ones being

The newest E51's are now at least 16 years old and the newer S3 lower mileage and grade 4 cars that dealers prefer are a lot less common as the cars are now that much older with a lot having higher miles and lower grades meaning now that they are quite often fighting among themselves and the Australian dealers for the few that do come up which meets that criteria so have to pay more for them at auction in Japan which I think is part of the reason why even lower spec cars which they might not even have bid on in the past are now still attracting a premium price as there fixed costs on these cars are still the same so as in many cases these cars would have only been a couple of hundred cheaper or even less at auction than a higher specced car like for like so they still need to sell them for a very similar price

Only a couple years or so ago there were a far higher number of cars with a good grades, low mileage and higher spec but these cars are far less numerous now.

FOB costs in Japan and shipping have increased significantly.

UK prep and the dealers overheads have increased dramatically.

Whether this will change now that the import duty is 0% and the dealers move stock on is any ones guess.

This is why i think many long established Elgrand dealers have now pulled away from importing E51's and moved over to importing other models as I think that a number have realised that it is most likely a dying market

If I was looking to replace my E51 I think that rather than trying to source a E51 and was looking to import from the auctions now I would be inclined to go with a later 2014/15 model Alphard which still keeps it under the 10 year rule so no IVA and much more choice of the higher grades and specs and even though more expensive at auction (which as a relative cost is only a small part of the overall cost) as the fixed costs FOB and shipping, UK port fees transport prep and registration etc are the same.

As you say it does not seem to have impacted yet on the UK market as like you I have seen a number of cars taking a considerable time to sell although I also think this is true on fresh imports where going back a few months quite a few of the cars on the Vine Place website had been UK registered a year or more before where as a couple of years or so ago Elgrands were selling while still on the boat and they were still on the way here

 

[PhillB]

I was until recent weeks looking at importing but there was a massive drop off in E51s coming to auction in Japan about 4 months ago (annoyingly about the same time I started seriously looking). In the time I’ve been looking, only one E51 that fitted my criteria came up and it went for £4k hammer price, that’s about 2-3 times what they were fetching 6 months ago, so people were paying silly money for certain ones, that generally pushed up the auction prices, but they have normalised a bit now.
I agree with what @kfgas says, lots of dealers have stopped buying them as fewer have been available but that hasn’t dropped the auction prices for a lot of them, yes the odd ice cream van White one comes up that sells for a reasonable price, but even those have flipped through the auctions a couple of times because the reserves have been pushed up.
Kev is absolutely correct, get one that’s been in the country for a year with an owner that’s decided it’s not for them and that way you may get a bargain

 

[kfgas]

I was until recent weeks looking at importing but there was a massive drop off in E51s coming to auction in Japan about 4 months ago (annoyingly about the same time I started seriously looking). In the time I’ve been looking, only one E51 that fitted my criteria came up and it went for £4k hammer price, that’s about 2-3 times what they were fetching 6 months ago, so people were paying silly money for certain ones, that generally pushed up the auction prices, but they have normalised a bit now.
I agree with what @kfgas says, lots of dealers have stopped buying them as fewer have been available but that hasn’t dropped the auction prices for a lot of them, yes the odd ice cream van White one comes up that sells for a reasonable price, but even those have flipped through the auctions a couple of times because the reserves have been pushed up.
Kev is absolutely correct, get one that’s been in the country for a year with an owner that’s decided it’s not for them and that way you may get a bargain

Phil, not an Elgrand but came across this grade 3.5 2016 top of the range, top spec 3.5 4wd Vellfire a few days ago, up for auction on Tues, start price of 1380000 yen, approx £6400.

First time in auction.

Similar grade 4's or 4.5's spec cars up for approx £25000 in UK.

Has a U4 right in the middle of the roof which is what would have downgraded it and along with the grade wil may be l frighten the dealers off (poss £1500 PDR and spray to sort out) but apart from that map and inspectors report pretty much spot on.

As a keeper could be a good buy.


Worth a cheeky bid

Will be interesting to see what it goes for and how it compares to the Elgrands you have been looking at

 

[Gonzo12c]

Im currently importing a different vehicle from the US myself. Shipping to the UK is 3k and will be 30% tax to pay when it lands. Ive used a exporter agent in the US who has handled the communication and getting it onto the boat.

Once I get it transported to my house and on the road (doing the MOT modifications myself) it will still be a cheaper vehicle and in much better condition than any for sale in the UK which have rotted over the past X number of years due to climate and lack of preventative maintenance.

So all in dealers will keep pushing the profits and some vehicles will cost more than others but the 30% tax has not changed. A later model Elgrand in Japan will cost more so compound the tax fee and landed price is that much more.

Shortcut the chain though and don't buy off the forecourt in the UK to see a better deal.

 

[kfgas]

Im currently importing a different vehicle from the US myself. Shipping to the UK is 3k and will be 30% tax to pay when it lands. Ive used a exporter agent in the US who has handled the communication and getting it onto the boat.

Once I get it transported to my house and on the road (doing the MOT modifications myself) it will still be a cheaper vehicle and in much better condition than any for sale in the UK which have rotted over the past X number of years due to climate and lack of preventative maintenance.

So all in dealers will keep pushing the profits and some vehicles will cost more than others but the 30% tax has not changed. A later model Elgrand in Japan will cost more so compound the tax fee and landed price is that much more.

Shortcut the chain though and don't buy off the forecourt in the UK to see a better deal.

Agree entirely with this but you are not correct regarding the tax.

The UK tax/vat is 20% not 30% and has been for many years.

Your thinking that it is 30% is a very common misconception when in fact in reality it is 10% import duty plus 20% tax/vat

This will also be true of the car you are importing from America and is what I have just paid a few months ago on a Audi that I have imported for my wife from Singapore.

As regards Japan In the past the tax/vat was added on top of the UK import duty on any car from Japan in the same way as imports from other countries which was anything up to 10% which is what I paid on my Elgrand when I imported it back in 2019 which in itself is considerably less than what a straight 30% tax would be but under a trade agreement (CEPA) with Japan has been reducing on a sliding scale over recent years and now as from January 2026 is 0% for any Japanese car import as long as it complies with the rules which are basically that the import must be of Japanese manufacture and be imported direct from Japan.

This will not apply to the car you are importing from America in the same way that it did not apply to the Audi that I have just imported for my wife.

The reduction in duty is claimed at the time the car is cleared at a UK port using code 300 on the import submission to HMRC and will need to be backed up with the export certificate and/or some very specific wording in the invoice from Japan to prove that the car complies with the rules.

These documents are both sent as standard by Japanese agents or exporters.

As I said in a earlier post you would think that the 0% duty now payable may have a knock on effect on dealer prices but this remains to be seen.

 

[Gonzo12c]

My 30% is a rounding of the 20+10 i still end up paying out of pocket near 30% of the shipping plus vehicle cost so I do not think this has really changed for a while and if to give someone a ballpark figure just add 30%

Duty/tax all the same thing it's cost to be paid.

 

[kfgas]

My 30% is a rounding of the 20+10 i still end up paying out of pocket near 30% of the shipping plus vehicle cost so I do not think this has really changed for a while and if to give someone a ballpark figure just add 30%

Duty/tax all the same thing it's cost to be paid.

What has changed and where there is a significant difference is that now with the Japan import duty being 0% this makes a car imported from Japan which complies with the CEPA rules the total landed cost is quite a bit less which is what I was mainly trying to point out in my previous post

Prior to this trade agreement it would have been 10% import duty on the CIF plus 20% vat on top (not 20+10) of this total as the vat is paid on the total of the the CIF price price plus the import duty

As an example a car with a CIF of £10000 would have cost £13200 landed with the 10% import duty added plus the 20% vat on top of both the CIF and import duty.

Under the new CEPA trade agreement this from January 2026 is now reduced to £12000 landed with 0% import duty added and just the 20% vat to pay on the CIF price.

You have said in both your posts that this has not changed when clearly it has so for a car imported from japan the 30% rule to get a ballpark figure does not work anymore which for the benefit of others I feel needed clarifying as knowing this helps to set out a budget if intending to buy from Japan.

I totally agree with you duty /tax is all a thing that has to be paid but I know which one of the 2 examples I would rather be paying.

This was something that I took account of when importing the Audi from Singapore for my wife but as she preferred the Audi to a Japanese equivalent even though it meant paying the 10% import duty was the way we decided to go although it is something that needs to be considered especially if looking at importing a more expensive car.

Part of the reason we decided on the Audi quite apart from her not being that keen on a Japanese equivalent was that although the 10% import duty is payable on cars from Singapore this was virtually offset by the fact that shipping from Singapore was slightly less and the Audi being a world car already has a fog light and underseal from the factory and needed only to be converted from metric to imperial, kilometres to miles etc in the MMI which was a 10 minute job so therefore saved on the prep which would have been needed for a Japanese import and apart from the model we have bought having a slightly upgraded gearbox which is normally fitted to the next model up and a slightly more up market interior it is exactly the same as a UK car and is made in the same European plants as cars made for the UK so making spares etc easy to obtain and I was even able to get the full Audi service history direct from Audi as it is all stored digitally.

 

[Gonzo12c]

Thats interesting to hear on the 0% now worth noting and Jap imports should be at a lower cost now.

I absolutely kniw what I will be paying this isn't my first rodeo and knlw it's 10 and then the 20 on top of this. It even gets a bit more crazy on trucks that are deemed a commercial due to bed length and being stung with a higher import tax so up to 22% I think it is and then the 20 VAT.

I have never used traders though as they have to make their money and it has always seemed to be a disproportionate amount when you work out the figures yourself.

 

[Daisuki JDM]

Long and short is good ones are really hard to find these days, prices are high for these ones which we personally feel the UK market won't be prepared to pay especially now there are 20 series Alphard/Vellfire options which are good/better alternatives. We only bring E51's in for customer orders and would never stock one. The same thing happened with Bongo's, its literally the scrap left in Japan now.

On the duty, it was 1.3% prior so tiny, it won't make a difference to the end price imo.

 

[PhillB]

Just a quick update I got today from the exporter that suspended any new bids - they have now seen an increase in availability on the boats and so on 18th they will be starting to accept new bids on motors, but still limiting dealers to a max of 4 in the system. They’re also charging for storage after 30days

 

[Importland]

For quite a while now I have thought that buying a non fresh import with perhaps 1 UK owner that was maybe imported a couple of years or so ago is the most cost effective way to go rather than paying a premium through a dealer for a fresh import.

I've considered that too, but I've found that unfortunately what seems good on paper, don't often translate to the real world. You'd think 1-2 year old E51 of a particular mileage/age/spec would be quite a bit cheaper than an equivalent fresh import. But I've found times where the dealer is taking the mick, and the used one is pretty much the same price as the fresh import. It seems everyone is just tying to milk everything they can out of everyone else these days. Sometimes I scratch my head on some cars sell.

 

[kfgas]

I was thinking more about buying from a private seller not a dealer as whether the car is a fresh import or one that has been in the country for a while the best value is either going to be importing yourself if a fresh import or buying from a private seller if already been in the UK for a while.

There are many private sales for Elgrands that are far cheaper than a similar fresh import or even one that has been in the country for a while from a dealer

You do not need to go any further than the for sale adds on this forum or the Elgrand or Marketplace facebook pages to see plenty that I would consider are in many cases far better cars and at a good saving on dealer prices.