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E51 The E51 Catalytic Converter Problem

AlanM

Here for life
Premium Member
E51 Owner
South East
#45
Wouldn't work economically (service exchange I mean). Just start putting some money figures to time involved, travel costs, packaging, shipping, the de-core work (1hr labour who ever does it), etc.

All that versus 2hrs labour at most from your local garage?
 

stevemen

Here for life
E51 Owner
#46
Wouldn't work economically (service exchange I mean). Just start putting some money figures to time involved, travel costs, packaging, shipping, the de-core work (1hr labour who ever does it), etc.

All that versus 2hrs labour at most from your local garage?
Your right Alan exchange item w
Wouldn't work economically (service exchange I mean). Just start putting some money figures to time involved, travel costs, packaging, shipping, the de-core work (1hr labour who ever does it), etc.

All that versus 2hrs labour at most from your local garage?
Your right Alan postal exchange probably won't work economically but over the coming months as we have time we are setting up drive in exchange cats along with exchange reconditioned front wishbones and brake calipiers.
 

MrRob_in

Part of the furniture (please de-cat your e51/2)
Premium Member
E51 Expert
E51 Owner
#48
E51 general layout would be great for electric conversion. Electric motor / regeneration braking unit at / in each hub. Battery under floor taking space of drive train and optional generator under bonnet :p
 

Steviejay

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
E51 Owner
#49
E51 general layout would be great for electric conversion. Electric motor / regeneration braking unit at / in each hub. Battery under floor taking space of drive train and optional generator under bonnet :p
Its not actually as silly as it sounds!
 

DaveC.

Member
Premium Member
E51 Owner
#53
I don't know if any one has seen a copy of the official Nissan recall notice but here it is.
Due to me copying and pasting to Google translate, it has come out in a vertical format, but I'm sure you will all get the gist !






Recall report number
3225
Recall start date
September 13, 2013

Structure, apparatus or performance condition and its cause that it is deemed to be in a standard nonconformity state
Because the program of the engine control computer is inappropriate, the intake air amount of the engine may be insufficient at the time of deceleration by accelerator off from the time of high engine speed, the fuel is discharged without burning in the engine, the exhaust gas purification on the front side By burning with a catalyst, the inside of the catalyst becomes hot and the catalyst may be damaged. As a result, abnormal noise is generated by the fragments of the broken catalyst, and if the rear catalyst is clogged, acceleration failure occurs. In the worst case, engine stall may occur after engine malfunction.
Content of improvement
In addition to modifying the engine control program to countermeasure specifications, check the damage condition of the catalyst, and replace the catalyst (4 pieces) with a new one if there is an abnormality.
· Since the vehicles that are not covered are included in the range of the chassis number included in the recalled car,
Please contact the dealer you purchased.
· The production period of the recalled car does not match the time of purchase.
· Chassis number is printed on car verification.

Model
Common name
Recalled cars
Range of included chassis number
Recalled cars
production period
Recalled cars
Number
Remarks
UA-E 51
CBA-E 51
Elgrand
E51-000037
~ E 51 -15 6623
April 10, 2002
~ November 1, 2006
74,443 units

UA-NE 51
CBA-NE 51
NE 51 - 000040
~ NE 51 - 154531
April 10, 2002
~ November 2, 2006
47,422 units
(Total 4 types)
(1 vehicle model in total)
(Scope of whole production period)
April 10, 2002 - November 2, 2006
Total 121,865
 

Lpgc

Here for life
Premium Member
E51 Owner
Yorkshire
#55
The above recall notice info reads as though Nissan claim the cat problem is caused by over-fuelling during engine over-run / coasting at high rpm, yet all E51 engines I've seen cut off all fuelling (no petrol or LPG at all) during those conditions (which is pretty much the norm for all pulsed fuel injection engines)... So to me it reads as though the recall notice doesn't properly explain the cause of the cat problem. The recall notice seems to imply that the work which would be done during recall would be to re-program the petrol ECU (to prevent the over-fuelling which I've said I can't see being true) and to replace any of the 4 cats that seem to be failing or leave existing cats in place if they're not failing - The recall doesn't say anything about removing cats or fitting improved cats, yet it's common knowledge (at least on this forum) that it's a good idea to remove cats.
 

Jamie King

Newbie
Premium Member
#56
Sorry to jump into this thread so late. I was told by Phil @ JAL that my 2.5l E51 (LPG conversion) *DOESN'T* need de-coring. He might have mentioned that the car I bought had already been recalled -- I need to check that with the newfound information from this thread!

I saw a couple of comments which suggested that the 2.5 E51s might not need decoring; I also saw some which suggested that LPG conversions were in greater need of it.

I'm inclined to get this done, but I'd need to find someone in Spain as I'm on the road. I gather it should be a fairly easy job? If anyone has, by any chance, a reliable garage in southern Spain, I'd be grateful for any pointers!
 

Karl

The Boss
Staff member
E50 Owner
Premium Member
E50 Expert
North East
#58
Sorry to jump into this thread so late. I was told by Phil @ JAL that my 2.5l E51 (LPG conversion) *DOESN'T* need de-coring.
Please, for the benefit of all of us, go and stamp on his fucking head!

Yes, they need de-coring. The 2.5 has the same quad cat set up as the 3.5. The recall does NOT fix the problem, it just prolongs the inevitable.

The front cores will still break up, they will still get trapped in the 2nd cores, and your engine will still blow up.

As it's LPG converted, might as well get all 4 done and save the shit being blown out the back of the exhaust when the front cats do give up.
 

Jamie King

Newbie
Premium Member
#59
>Please, for the benefit of all of us, go and stamp on his fucking head!

Hehe.

> As it's LPG converted, might as well get all 4 done and save the shit being blown out the back of the exhaust when the front cats do give up.

So I take it the normal procedure is to remove the front cats first? Would removing all the cats lower the chance of passing an MOT? I will have to do that at some point (pass an MOT.)
 

Karl

The Boss
Staff member
E50 Owner
Premium Member
E50 Expert
North East
#60
OK...

With a standard cat, over time, it will wear away, break down and fall to pieces. The bits just blow out the back, and then you have emissions problems. This is where you would normally get a replacement.

On a V6 you have 2 exhaust outlets, so 2 cats each side. Same principle.

The E51 has a quad cat set up, which means that on each bank there is a primary car (the first one that breaks down) and secondary car (the second one that causes the blockage).

When the primary cats break down, the crap gets caught in the secondary cats and causes a blockage.

The secondary cats are just for COLD START EMISSIONS which are not tested in the UK. So removing the 2nd pair of cats has NO impact on the emissions. All it does is allow the debris from the primary cats to flow out the back of the exhaust without concern, so no engine damage.

Obviously once the primary cats then fall apart completely and stop working, then you will have an emissions problem.

But, it's an MOT fail to remove or tamper with any cat that is standard on an exhaust system. So most people opt to remove the car, cut the top open, smash the core out, weld closed and refit. The welding is hidden by the heat shield, and all is good with the world.

As you have an LPG car though... LPG burns a lot cleaner than Petrol. So you can have no Cats, get tested on LPG and still pass emissions testing. But you then still have the argument that if it was there as standard, and you've removed it, then it's a fail.
 
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