- Messages
- 4,813
- Reaction score
- 13,494
- Points
- 373
- Location
- Mid Yorkshire
- First Name
- Simon
- Elgrand
- E51
- Region
- Yorkshire
OK thanks Karl
-
Welcome to the ElgrandOC forum. You will find that the majority of the forum is locked, but do not worry. You can unlock more content by registering to the forum completely free. Sign up is automatic, does not require email confirmation and is instant. Feel free to browse through the sections to see what topics have been covered before you register. You can register for an account by CLICKING HERE Once you have registered, you will unlock more of the forum content. You will not unlock all of the content until you have reached 10 posts. This is to give you an opportunity to chat to existing members and help to integrate you into the forum community. We are a friendly and helpful community and there is a wealth of infomation contained within the forum. Please feel free to register, introduce yourself and get to know your fellow members. Feel free to look at the Frequently Asked Questions section, the Meets/Events section and the Competition Section without having to register. We look forward to getting to know you and help you with any questions or problemd you have with your Elgrand.
Ensuring the Future of EOC - 10 Post Rule
- Thread starter Karl
- Start date
- Messages
- 105,084
- Reaction score
- 101,352
- Points
- 10,583
- Location
- Billingham
- First Name
- Karl
- Elgrand
- E50
- Region
- North East
Just to show, the numbers I quoted yesterday are not fictitious... here's a screenshot of the stats from the forum. This shows the total number of posts (blue line) and the total number of likes (orange line) from 1st Jan this year (which was a big step up from 2017!) to yesterday.
You can see the last 3 days have seen a massive increase in activity! So we are driving the club in the right direction!
The points are "posts/lines" per day... so yesterday saw the highest number of posts ever on this forum at 677 and total liked posts went up to a massive 1218!!
You can see the last 3 days have seen a massive increase in activity! So we are driving the club in the right direction!
The points are "posts/lines" per day... so yesterday saw the highest number of posts ever on this forum at 677 and total liked posts went up to a massive 1218!!
- Messages
- 4,813
- Reaction score
- 13,494
- Points
- 373
- Location
- Mid Yorkshire
- First Name
- Simon
- Elgrand
- E51
- Region
- Yorkshire
As said above, I haven't read through all this thread yet but I agree with most of the positives people have written about. However I can see a few negatives and since I haven't yet read negatives I thought I'd bring them some up...
There are usually 'lurkers' on forums, some of whom are people of few words but will probably shout up at some point when they feel they have something worthwhile to say. E.g. There may be lurkers watching the AC problems threads who might post tomorrow with a solution except they haven't posted 10 times yet and probably won't post 10 pleasantries just to allow them to post on the AC thread however helpful their info might be? Until now, bots for search engines such as Google could search the site so when people have searched for terms such as 'Elgrand aircon' the search results would have a link to very relevant threads on this site... so although the forum will still appear in search results the search results won't show posts relevant to the search terms. E.g. When I had problems with an A604 gearbox on a Chrysler I searched for 'A604 gearbox' and search results led me to a 'TurboMopar' forum where there were some clever people talking about A604 gearboxes. Since then I've contributed with help on that forum on other subjects but I wouldn't have become a member if search results hadn't been as relevant to me at the time I became a member. I could talk about the weather in ten posts before joining in with chat about A604 gearboxes but I'd feel a bit disingenuous for doing so. Got to hold my hand up to joining when I needed info, not because I wanted to talk about the weather or how comfy my Chrysler seats were etc, but I've helped others since.
More out on a wing with this one - As a website grows in popularity etc, although the costs to run it will go up it's value will also go up? If Facebook had taken the approach of not allowing people to find basic members/info on search engines like Google, would Facebook now be worth what it is today? E.g. I could type the name and town of an old school friend into Google and search results might point me to that person's profile on FB, this would be the carrot that made me want to join FB. But if all Google search results had returned when I searched for a friend was a link to Facebook without mentioning my friend (and if FB wasn't the massive thing it now is) I'd probably think it unlikely my friend was on FB and never join FB. The reason FB is worth what it is is due to the advertising opportunities it facilitates but while most people join FB for a chinwag, most people join forums to discuss specific issues and usually the first issue they're interested in is the one they're experiencing.
Just gone over a few points that could lead to the new setup backfiring. Around 10 years ago LPGForum was quite a thriving forum, lots of new issues etc discussed but most subjects started by new members, for sure a lot of new members disappeared after having their questions answered and their problems resolved but some new members started to contribute regularly on other subjects and help others with problems. LPGForum is now dying a slow death because it is extremely difficult for none members to become new members (admin say it has to be like this because they were getting a lot of fake spambot members because the forum doesn't support catcha or something) so there are few new subjects. At it's peak it could have earned a few bob from advertising and therefore been worth a few bob but now it would struggle to get advertisers and won't be worth anything. I'm inclined to think that in terms of growth and forum popularity it'd be in a forum's best interests to allow advertising rather than impose limitations on new / none paying members but of course at the same time to allow free speech rather than endorse advertisers. Some forums take it too far the other way and actively prevent positive talk about an advertisers competitors, which is bias/censorship that lowers the quality and usefulness of the forum. But I'm not sure it's a positive to have people making small-talk for 10 posts in the 'general' section and then, as expected, their 11th post be in the 'technical' section about some problem they want to discuss... How will it effect future forum new memberships if such person doesn't find a thread on their problem in 'technical' from a Google search?
There are usually 'lurkers' on forums, some of whom are people of few words but will probably shout up at some point when they feel they have something worthwhile to say. E.g. There may be lurkers watching the AC problems threads who might post tomorrow with a solution except they haven't posted 10 times yet and probably won't post 10 pleasantries just to allow them to post on the AC thread however helpful their info might be? Until now, bots for search engines such as Google could search the site so when people have searched for terms such as 'Elgrand aircon' the search results would have a link to very relevant threads on this site... so although the forum will still appear in search results the search results won't show posts relevant to the search terms. E.g. When I had problems with an A604 gearbox on a Chrysler I searched for 'A604 gearbox' and search results led me to a 'TurboMopar' forum where there were some clever people talking about A604 gearboxes. Since then I've contributed with help on that forum on other subjects but I wouldn't have become a member if search results hadn't been as relevant to me at the time I became a member. I could talk about the weather in ten posts before joining in with chat about A604 gearboxes but I'd feel a bit disingenuous for doing so. Got to hold my hand up to joining when I needed info, not because I wanted to talk about the weather or how comfy my Chrysler seats were etc, but I've helped others since.
More out on a wing with this one - As a website grows in popularity etc, although the costs to run it will go up it's value will also go up? If Facebook had taken the approach of not allowing people to find basic members/info on search engines like Google, would Facebook now be worth what it is today? E.g. I could type the name and town of an old school friend into Google and search results might point me to that person's profile on FB, this would be the carrot that made me want to join FB. But if all Google search results had returned when I searched for a friend was a link to Facebook without mentioning my friend (and if FB wasn't the massive thing it now is) I'd probably think it unlikely my friend was on FB and never join FB. The reason FB is worth what it is is due to the advertising opportunities it facilitates but while most people join FB for a chinwag, most people join forums to discuss specific issues and usually the first issue they're interested in is the one they're experiencing.
Just gone over a few points that could lead to the new setup backfiring. Around 10 years ago LPGForum was quite a thriving forum, lots of new issues etc discussed but most subjects started by new members, for sure a lot of new members disappeared after having their questions answered and their problems resolved but some new members started to contribute regularly on other subjects and help others with problems. LPGForum is now dying a slow death because it is extremely difficult for none members to become new members (admin say it has to be like this because they were getting a lot of fake spambot members because the forum doesn't support catcha or something) so there are few new subjects. At it's peak it could have earned a few bob from advertising and therefore been worth a few bob but now it would struggle to get advertisers and won't be worth anything. I'm inclined to think that in terms of growth and forum popularity it'd be in a forum's best interests to allow advertising rather than impose limitations on new / none paying members but of course at the same time to allow free speech rather than endorse advertisers. Some forums take it too far the other way and actively prevent positive talk about an advertisers competitors, which is bias/censorship that lowers the quality and usefulness of the forum. But I'm not sure it's a positive to have people making small-talk for 10 posts in the 'general' section and then, as expected, their 11th post be in the 'technical' section about some problem they want to discuss... How will it effect future forum new memberships if such person doesn't find a thread on their problem in 'technical' from a Google search?
Last edited:
I agree that this isn't straightforward, so to play devil's advocate.
I have always been a bit of a petrol head and been a member of several forums of both specialist motorbikes and cars.
I feel I know quite a bit, but I know nothing about Elgrands. One of the most important bits of knowledge to have is to know when you don't know anything! - this is why I joined the forum: to learn more about them before making a better advised purchase. Hopefully, next week or in a couple of year's time, I will buy one, then I will undoubtedly modify, upgrade etc and most probably put up pics and build posts to help others, like I have done with my bike and car builds in the past. At the moment, I don't feel I have anything useful to add. I did have lots of questions, but a few minutes browsing almost always shows that others have asked the same question before, so I try not to waste anyone's time with the usual 'how fast do they go?', 'what should I look out for?', 'what's the mpg?' questions.
I would also rather buy a vehicle off someone who knows about and cherishes it, preferably knowing something about previous owners etc, hence keeping an eye on the for sale section. I can never understand why a forum would want to narrow the potential market for their members who invariably are only reluctantly selling because they have to.
On other forums when the minimum post rule's been put in, people just put in nonsense 'yes mate', 'me too', luv ur motor, ' nice pics' posts until they made the requisite number of posts (50 in the case of one forum!). It gets very annoying.
On the other hand, as I have made a clear above, I haven't done anything at all to sustain and build this forum yet. Lots of people clearly have, and their voice is obviously the most important. This is an immensely impressive and useful resource from what I see(saw) and, importantly, it seems like it is a really friendly community too. Not all are,
And for what its worth, I'd be happy to pay a fiver to be a basic member as long as it was easy (paypal?)
I have always been a bit of a petrol head and been a member of several forums of both specialist motorbikes and cars.
I feel I know quite a bit, but I know nothing about Elgrands. One of the most important bits of knowledge to have is to know when you don't know anything! - this is why I joined the forum: to learn more about them before making a better advised purchase. Hopefully, next week or in a couple of year's time, I will buy one, then I will undoubtedly modify, upgrade etc and most probably put up pics and build posts to help others, like I have done with my bike and car builds in the past. At the moment, I don't feel I have anything useful to add. I did have lots of questions, but a few minutes browsing almost always shows that others have asked the same question before, so I try not to waste anyone's time with the usual 'how fast do they go?', 'what should I look out for?', 'what's the mpg?' questions.
I would also rather buy a vehicle off someone who knows about and cherishes it, preferably knowing something about previous owners etc, hence keeping an eye on the for sale section. I can never understand why a forum would want to narrow the potential market for their members who invariably are only reluctantly selling because they have to.
On other forums when the minimum post rule's been put in, people just put in nonsense 'yes mate', 'me too', luv ur motor, ' nice pics' posts until they made the requisite number of posts (50 in the case of one forum!). It gets very annoying.
On the other hand, as I have made a clear above, I haven't done anything at all to sustain and build this forum yet. Lots of people clearly have, and their voice is obviously the most important. This is an immensely impressive and useful resource from what I see(saw) and, importantly, it seems like it is a really friendly community too. Not all are,
And for what its worth, I'd be happy to pay a fiver to be a basic member as long as it was easy (paypal?)
- Messages
- 105,084
- Reaction score
- 101,352
- Points
- 10,583
- Location
- Billingham
- First Name
- Karl
- Elgrand
- E50
- Region
- North East
OK.
Guests can see the Frequently Asked Questions. So they can read about the Cat issues, the Japanese Sat Nav issues, the clock, underseal, etc etc.
Guests can also see the meets section so that they can find a meet local to them and go if they want without the need to join up.
Guests can also see the competitions section, so they can see that (we will be) doing monthly competitions where the prizes are worth more than a years membership.
Registered members have all of that, plus the ability to get to know other members using the social sections of the forum. This allows people to introduce themselves and start learning some names.
After 10 posts (ten, just ten, I can make 10 posts in 5 minutes just in the social areas) they get access to everything for life.
Also, all the forums are visible to guests, including search bots. They will be able to see that there is a thread, with the title they have looked for, they just won't be able to see the content. They can see, however, how many replies are against that thread. They can see when the last comment was, and how many people have viewed it. They also get a nice little notice to say what they need to do to get access.
Example here:
From this, they will be able to see that this is a thriving forum, full of active members, and see that in this particular thread, there are 244 comments from which they could learn and find the answers.
We have not completely locked it down so that people don't know what is hidden behind the magic door. We have just prevented those guests, or those looking for an answer on Google, from taking bandwidth from registered members who are active without contributing.
Once they have signed up and posted 10 times, the aim is that those people will feel like they are part of the community, and not just take what they want, but also become active members.
I am not under any false impressions that all of those people who make it to 10 posts will actually become active members, but I know that a large percentage of them will when they get to see how welcoming and friendly the community will be.
We are NOT allowing advertising on this site. It's a free resource that relies on donations from members who deem the site worthy. I am not taking payments from a company to advertise their products, because of those products are shit, then we just get slated for taking money so that anyone can advertise.
I'd rather advertisement come from people who have used a company and share their experience to allow other members to make educated decisions around where they buy their parts.
The other thing I have said is that if I ever have to pay hosting fees out of my own pocket to keep the club online, it dies. Simple as that. All I did was create a resource for people to come together and benefit from. If the resource is getting abused by people not wanting to be a part of it, then it dies. I would rather the resource remain an active one where people WANT to pay to keep it going. At least this way those who see the resource as being an asset to them will continue to support the club.
We have people here who were previous owners of the club, but stay and continue to pay membership fees just because they like the forum and want to be a part of the community. They continue to share their learnings with others because if gives them a sense of self satisfaction, and helping others is worth more than £12 a year.
This has been the most controversial decision that has been made regarding the clubs future. And I have to say that 95% of the feedback we have had has been positive. From newbies and oldies (excuse the term) alike. This decision has also given some of the "lurkers" the push they needed to become involved. And that's all we ask. if you want to use the technical knowledge that our members have collated on this forum, then at least get stuck in and have a laugh with other members.
Guests can see the Frequently Asked Questions. So they can read about the Cat issues, the Japanese Sat Nav issues, the clock, underseal, etc etc.
Guests can also see the meets section so that they can find a meet local to them and go if they want without the need to join up.
Guests can also see the competitions section, so they can see that (we will be) doing monthly competitions where the prizes are worth more than a years membership.
Registered members have all of that, plus the ability to get to know other members using the social sections of the forum. This allows people to introduce themselves and start learning some names.
After 10 posts (ten, just ten, I can make 10 posts in 5 minutes just in the social areas) they get access to everything for life.
Also, all the forums are visible to guests, including search bots. They will be able to see that there is a thread, with the title they have looked for, they just won't be able to see the content. They can see, however, how many replies are against that thread. They can see when the last comment was, and how many people have viewed it. They also get a nice little notice to say what they need to do to get access.
Example here:
From this, they will be able to see that this is a thriving forum, full of active members, and see that in this particular thread, there are 244 comments from which they could learn and find the answers.
We have not completely locked it down so that people don't know what is hidden behind the magic door. We have just prevented those guests, or those looking for an answer on Google, from taking bandwidth from registered members who are active without contributing.
Once they have signed up and posted 10 times, the aim is that those people will feel like they are part of the community, and not just take what they want, but also become active members.
I am not under any false impressions that all of those people who make it to 10 posts will actually become active members, but I know that a large percentage of them will when they get to see how welcoming and friendly the community will be.
We are NOT allowing advertising on this site. It's a free resource that relies on donations from members who deem the site worthy. I am not taking payments from a company to advertise their products, because of those products are shit, then we just get slated for taking money so that anyone can advertise.
I'd rather advertisement come from people who have used a company and share their experience to allow other members to make educated decisions around where they buy their parts.
The other thing I have said is that if I ever have to pay hosting fees out of my own pocket to keep the club online, it dies. Simple as that. All I did was create a resource for people to come together and benefit from. If the resource is getting abused by people not wanting to be a part of it, then it dies. I would rather the resource remain an active one where people WANT to pay to keep it going. At least this way those who see the resource as being an asset to them will continue to support the club.
We have people here who were previous owners of the club, but stay and continue to pay membership fees just because they like the forum and want to be a part of the community. They continue to share their learnings with others because if gives them a sense of self satisfaction, and helping others is worth more than £12 a year.
This has been the most controversial decision that has been made regarding the clubs future. And I have to say that 95% of the feedback we have had has been positive. From newbies and oldies (excuse the term) alike. This decision has also given some of the "lurkers" the push they needed to become involved. And that's all we ask. if you want to use the technical knowledge that our members have collated on this forum, then at least get stuck in and have a laugh with other members.
You've just added something useful by way of posting your thoughts
Just because some of us have been here longer it doesn't make our voices more important than yours - and I include @Karl & the admin team too. I'm sure Karl would agree that the day any one voice/opinion becomes more important than another is the day the club dies.
Things have been a bit hectic on here over the weekend with the changes but I'm sure it will settle down again soon so make sure you come back & contribute where you can or join in some of the chat if you get half an hour to spare
And welcome to the club @BigLT
- Messages
- 105,084
- Reaction score
- 101,352
- Points
- 10,583
- Location
- Billingham
- First Name
- Karl
- Elgrand
- E50
- Region
- North East
@BigLT - You don't even need to add value - just get stuck in with the banter, that helps the community be encouraging conversation and that's how relationships are built.
You'll find that the most active members are posting mostly in the chat sections, just because they like to chat to each other.
This club is not JUST a place to get help with your Elgrand, as someone said today on a post on Facebook, ElgrandOC is like a family. We all look out for and help one another with any issue whether it be your Elgrand, personal, professional... we're all here to help each other out.
But as @Phil said, no one person's opinion is more valid than another.
Unless that person is an absolute bell end and is being purposefully unhelpful and trying to ruin things for others.
Anyone who comes here with a positive attitude, regardless of their opinion, is welcome. Healthy debate drives a club forward. It gives the admin team insight into what people don't like, what people want, and what people need. Without that insight, we can't develop. So share opinions as you see fit, and the ultimate decision will be made based on overall input.
Not everyone will agree with every decision we make, but hopefully the way we make those decisions and the way we implement change will help to keep people on board and ultimately either see that the decision was a good one, or can at least appreciate WHY the decision was made, even if you still don't agree with it.
As they say, you can't please everyone... and we have over 2500 people to keep happy... it's not always easy.
You'll find that the most active members are posting mostly in the chat sections, just because they like to chat to each other.
This club is not JUST a place to get help with your Elgrand, as someone said today on a post on Facebook, ElgrandOC is like a family. We all look out for and help one another with any issue whether it be your Elgrand, personal, professional... we're all here to help each other out.
But as @Phil said, no one person's opinion is more valid than another.
Unless that person is an absolute bell end and is being purposefully unhelpful and trying to ruin things for others.
Anyone who comes here with a positive attitude, regardless of their opinion, is welcome. Healthy debate drives a club forward. It gives the admin team insight into what people don't like, what people want, and what people need. Without that insight, we can't develop. So share opinions as you see fit, and the ultimate decision will be made based on overall input.
Not everyone will agree with every decision we make, but hopefully the way we make those decisions and the way we implement change will help to keep people on board and ultimately either see that the decision was a good one, or can at least appreciate WHY the decision was made, even if you still don't agree with it.
As they say, you can't please everyone... and we have over 2500 people to keep happy... it's not always easy.
- Messages
- 5
- Reaction score
- 5
- Points
- 63
- Location
- leicestershire, UK
- First Name
- mandy
- Elgrand
- Looking to buy
- Region
- Midlands
how do you know if you have posted 10 times or not? Don't want to be just posting drivel for the sake of it. Also, where the "introduce yourself" section - I haven't found that - link would be good. Thanks
- Messages
- 727
- Reaction score
- 1,834
- Points
- 313
- First Name
- Simon
- Elgrand
- E51
- Region
- Midlands
If you click on your name anywhere it appears on here you'll get a liitle popup window with some information, one of those things is Messages - that's how many posts you've made. You've done 8 so far. Reply to this, saying how wonderful I am and you've nearly made it
- Messages
- 4,813
- Reaction score
- 13,494
- Points
- 373
- Location
- Mid Yorkshire
- First Name
- Simon
- Elgrand
- E51
- Region
- Yorkshire
So reply to Blingo and that'll make 9 messages.
And I'm dying to know what the weather been like in your area today? Hehe that'll make 10 messages.
See you on the technical board soon? ;-)
Like a Barnsley bird, got to say 10 things before you get to bring up 'other' subjects or it's just not on lol!
And I'm dying to know what the weather been like in your area today? Hehe that'll make 10 messages.
See you on the technical board soon? ;-)
Like a Barnsley bird, got to say 10 things before you get to bring up 'other' subjects or it's just not on lol!
- Messages
- 105,084
- Reaction score
- 101,352
- Points
- 10,583
- Location
- Billingham
- First Name
- Karl
- Elgrand
- E50
- Region
- North East
@pinkdduck - here's the intro section, it's in the main forum list, in the general section.
https://forum.elgrandoc.uk/forums/introductions-newbies-please-check-in.6/
https://forum.elgrandoc.uk/forums/introductions-newbies-please-check-in.6/
- Messages
- 4,813
- Reaction score
- 13,494
- Points
- 373
- Location
- Mid Yorkshire
- First Name
- Simon
- Elgrand
- E51
- Region
- Yorkshire
Brendan1969
BANNED
And then upgrade to Premium and support he cause further perhaps albeit ITS OPTIONAL
Brendan1969
BANNED
Above the bedDid she make you put it back on the ceiling?
Brendan1969
BANNED
Brendan1969
BANNED
When I decide to sell mine matey I will bell you.
When I decide to sell mine matey I will bell you.
You won't be selling that beauty for a while @Brendan1969 & when you do you'll be asking too much for most of us
No not above the bed, the wife said it would look like a giant speleothem.Above the bed
I bet someone Googles that.
- Messages
- 105,084
- Reaction score
- 101,352
- Points
- 10,583
- Location
- Billingham
- First Name
- Karl
- Elgrand
- E50
- Region
- North East
