E51 Worries/Concerned New Owner

DAMEscort

Active Member
Premium Member
E51 Owner
#1
Feeling pretty dumb to be posting this since i have a back ground in the trade but this is new ground for me in terms of being an import.
Bought the Elgrand and brought it home last night :/ , having been trawling through info/old forum posts i had decided being that i have no Japanese history or paperwork for my vehicle it would be a good idea to pay for the CarVX report i've seen many of you talking about (yes i should have known and carried this out BEFORE purchasing the vehicle hence the anger/embarrassment on my part). I have just received this morning a copy of the report, everything on it (to my untrained eye having never seen anything like this before) looks to be ok, apart from one section............

1523879495865.png

:cold_sweat::cold_sweat::cold_sweat::cold_sweat: apparently accident repaired.

Is there any way i can find out exactly what the damage/repair was and how serious etc?

I did notice when viewing the vehicle that it had a bit of paintwork done to it (front bumper mainly) but this didn't overly concern me (especially seeing the amount of posts on here about how easily the highway star bumpers can be damaged). Now that I've seen this report however I'm far more concerned as to just exactly what the full extent of the damage has been and would of liked to check the effected areas myself to ensure all work has, at least been carried out to a good standard and the van is safe. It seems to drive very well and sits nice on the road.

I've attached the full report incase it helps with giving advice.
 

Attachments

Karl

Founder
Staff member
E50 Owner
Premium Member
E50 Expert
#3
The level of repairs in Japan tends to be a lot better than over here. Although it's not nice to find out that there has been previously recorded damage, you will most likely find that the car has been repaired exceptionally well... to the point where you most likely won't/can't notice.
 

nobby62

Here for life
E51 Owner
#4
I suspect the fact that the repair has been recorded suggests that it has been done correctly i.e. not a backstreet bodge... which would probably be easy to see anyway.

If it looks like a good job it probably is , try to put it to the back of your mind and not let it spoil your enjoyment of the car.
 

DAMEscort

Active Member
Premium Member
E51 Owner
#5
The level of repairs in Japan tends to be a lot better than over here. Although it's not nice to find out that there has been previously recorded damage, you will most likely find that the car has been repaired exceptionally well... to the point where you most likely won't/can't notice.
That's hugely reassuring to hear Karl, thanks. The guy i bought it from was a private seller, who told me he had brought the van over her himself after months of looking for the right van and that this one had the highest auction grade. I'm pi***d off at myself for being taken in by him/his story to find this out now lol. The van certainly does look ok, i had noticed a bit of the seam sealer on the offside rear quarter (with the tailgate open) looked a bit different but with my naivety of imports had kind of put it down to the possibility that the heat in Japan could be whats caused it to look slightly cracked. As said, the colour match on the front bumper was a bit off, again, it's white pearlescent paint and no doubt hard to get an exact colour match so hadn't really gave it to much thought.

Will give it a good check over in the areas you mention @Dimbers the first dry day i get and have the chance to wash and polish it, thanks.
 

Chris T

Here for life
Premium Member
#6
I wouldn't worry about the car, if you're happy that's all that matters, but I hate someone telling a story to sell something, why lie. If it's listed as being repaired then it would have reflected that in the auction sheet, which seller would have had if he'd imported it himself, which he told you he did.
 
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Karl

Founder
Staff member
E50 Owner
Premium Member
E50 Expert
#7
As said, the colour match on the front bumper was a bit off, again, it's white pearlescent paint and no doubt hard to get an exact colour match so hadn't really gave it to much thought.
The colour of the bumper will be off compared to the wings. You will notice the same on the rear bumper, side skirts and door handle surrounds. The paint looks very different on plastic as it does on metal, so the harder you look at these areas, the more likely you are to notice.

The front bumper is the easiest to notice as it's a lot of plastic against a lot of metal.

I wouldn't worry too much about that to be honest. Since having mine I've had the front and rear bumper painted, the drivers door, and the passenger side rear quarter panel all painted. I can see colour differences when I look hard enough... but no one else is ever going to spend the same amount of time looking at it as I do, so no one else would know unless I point it out.
 

lolgamlen

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
E51 Owner
#8
I guess that at the end of the day it is about how you are experiencing the car now, and not worrying about what happened way back when. The fact that it was a reported repair means it was probably done well. If it drives well, has now current issues and you enjoy the experience of owning what is one of the nicest vehicles out there, then I would say all is well. Good luck and happy driving!
 

DAMEscort

Active Member
Premium Member
E51 Owner
#10
Thanks for the replies folks, I ended up phoning the seller yesterday who said that he had went through a broker to do the importing in order to make the process easier, he (seller) was totally unaware of this report and was told by the broker that this car was the highest auction grade. The seller does seem genuine enough and was as unhappy as i was with the findings of the report. He has now been back in contact with said broker, the broker has said that he has never seen a report like that before and that he just goes on the word of the agents and auction reports.

Brokers stance basically is, a buy back has been offered (at a reduced fee as the car would be treated like any other and have to pay it's way) but, If this car had been a "write off" (what would be cat C or D here) then i would of been listed on the auction sheet as "A or RA" which this is not, the collision mentioned in the report could be anything from slow speed impact to a 70mph smash but this doesn't make the car worth less as it has been fully repaired (my argument here is, as much as it may not make it worthless it certainly should not be sold as a "Top Grade Car", but then i'm not sure how the auction grading goes).

Law-side of things that covers any trader in the uk.............
  • dealers need to declare any/all "KNOWN" faults (broker already states he didnt know/never seen report like CarVX one), proof is very hard to obtain that they indeed did know.
  • a "reason of claim" would need to be established in order to seek recompense from the broker, as there are no known/obvious faults with the van due to the findings this is then hard to establish.
  • Most local authorities require dealers do HPI checks on all vehicles as part of their "licence to trade" agreement but its not law, any findings are then legally obligated to be openly reported. There are however no similar rules to require these checks be carried out on cars abroad and being that this car has only been in the UK/Registered since January it would, as far as the UK's concerned regardless of foreign history, it's HPI record here is/would be totally clear (like a brand new car)..............Grey area for grey imports?
Long and short of it, i feel, clever wording/use of loop holes on the import side by broker.
My little understanding of it would be -
regardless of repair quality, if it has been accident damaged (recorded) then it should be sold as such, just the same as a cat c/d car here would have to be (hence why the DVLA started making this type of information visible at the bottom of all V5 Documents). I don't believe for one minute that this broker didn't know that the car he was importing was classified as "R" at the auction it was bought from.

I have left all names/identifying stuff out of this post at this point, as much as i feel the broker has been fly (buy an "R" category car in japan, have it repaired and then import it as a "Top Grade Car") and would love to name them so as to make others aware of their lack of checks/responsibility of imports they bring in.

Thoughts are welcomed from others, is this the kind of normal broker stuff or does this seem like a bit of a dodgy one?

David
 

DAMEscort

Active Member
Premium Member
E51 Owner
#12
Totally agree buddy, broker is trying to say that this doesn't make the car worthless tho and it is still a top grade car. Not wanting to incriminate anyone or give bad rep at this point as im still taking it all in and trying to form my own opinion (which given my lack of knowledge on imports etc will be largely based around the opinions of you guys, hence the posting here).

I will PM you a copy of the wording of the email Karl and let you see whats been said exactly, i will still however at this point keep all names etc out the email.
 

DAMEscort

Active Member
Premium Member
E51 Owner
#14
This was my feelings, not a small broker either, seen their vehicles advertised a fair bit.
I'm not really wanting to name the broker as obviously this kind of thing could ruin someones reputation, at the same time it would appear that going on what I've seens so far, they would deserve it due to being underhanded.
Being new to the forum I don't yet know who's who, I've let Karl see a copy of the email reply from the broker as it shows he's the founder (still trying to keep this low key/amicable for the broker as I'm not yet sure what the final outcome will be) and I'll await his reply/opinion but the way its going at the moment, my opinion is that I would never use this broker or buy anything imported by him in the future (I am still open to being shown otherwise).
 

Karl

Founder
Staff member
E50 Owner
Premium Member
E50 Expert
#15
Regardless of what he says about the value of the car, he has sold it fraudulently.

The auction report clearly states that it is grade R which is "Repaired". Whether or not this was a top quality insurance quality repair, or a back alley bodge repair... it was still declared with that grading and he did NOT make that known.

He has sold a vehicle as High Grade, which it isn't. Problem is, he didn't say that it was a specific grade (that you've mentioned). It might be a high grade vehicle in terms of an opinion... but he has not stated that it was a Grade 4 for example which would be a typical high grade import.

So although he has failed to declare the repair, I'm not sure if he's been clever enough about it to get away with it.

Still worth reporting to trading standards. Regardless of whether you are happy or not. This broker has been deceptive in their sales, and as they are now on the defensive, it shows that you have hit a nerve with them.

As I said, inform trading standards and see what they say about it.
 

Chris T

Here for life
Premium Member
#19
Totally agree buddy, broker is trying to say that this doesn't make the car worthless tho and it is still a top grade car. Not wanting to incriminate anyone or give bad rep at this point as im still taking it all in and trying to form my own opinion (which given my lack of knowledge on imports etc will be largely based around the opinions of you guys, hence the posting here).

I will PM you a copy of the wording of the email Karl and let you see whats been said exactly, i will still however at this point keep all names etc out the email.
Correct it's not worthless, but auction probably worth 50-80% less than a grade 4, top auction grade for a car of the age would be a 4.5B this car was an RC. So not even close to high grade.

Edit: I get you don't want to ruin someone's reputation, but reputation is earned, and I'd hate to see someone on here get caught out by the same agent.
 

DAMEscort

Active Member
Premium Member
E51 Owner
#20
Correct it's not worthless, but auction probably worth 50-80% less than a grade 4, top auction grade for a car of the age would be a 4.5B this car was an RC. So not even close to high grade.

Edit: I get you don't want to ruin someone's reputation, but reputation is earned, and I'd hate to see someone on here get caught out by the same agent.
Totally agreed buddy, but my caution is due to being a new member (for all I know the broker involved could be a well established, reputable and well liked member of this forum) and it is very very easy to ruin someone's reputation with bad press/publicity and being that this is an ongoing matter I don't want to jump the gun so to speak. That being said, I do totally agree with not wanting someone else to be taken in by the broker which is why I will be (with the OK from the folks in charge on the forum) naming the guilty party once the time is right.