Towing may be illegal, (no straight answer given)

MrRob_in

Part of the furniture (please de-cat your e51/2)
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E51 Owner
I thought IVA/SVA only assessed vehicles were up to similar standards as Type Approved vehicle rather than gave them Type Approved Certification otherwise this would be a short cut every Manufacturer could follow to gain Type Approval.

Certainly my Chevy Camper, which was imported new, has no vin plate which would be a necessity for full Type Approval status.
 

Steve~Mk1

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E50 Owner
Premium Member
I thought IVA/SVA only assessed vehicles were up to similar standards as Type Approved vehicle rather than gave them Type Approved Certification otherwise this would be a short cut every Manufacturer could follow to gain Type Approval.

Certainly my Chevy Camper, which was imported new, has no vin plate which would be a necessity for full Type Approval status.
Sorry I meant that under the IVA/SVA you go through a process similar to type approval where the weights (GTW etc) are logged onto the V5 - not exactly the same as requiring them on a VIN as with type approval, but means that under IVA/SVA weights are recorded onto an official document that could be used as limits. I'd guess that the Chevy must have come with some docs stating the weights and so they're on the V5?
 

DaveC.

Member
Premium Member
E51 Owner
Just to add to the discussion. I asked the question of type approval towing etc.from a traffic cop and he said, as far as they understood it "No EU type approval on foreign grey imports means reverting back to 1998 regs". I thought it was just an interesting comment.
To add to the equation, If you have a motorhome, classified with DVLA as "Motor Caravan" If it was registered after 2011 it needs an EU type approved tow bar, but prior to this you can have one made or make your own.
So the answer is, put in some form of cooking device a sink and fixed table, the seats can be your bed, take several photos one of which should include a shot of the number plate, send all off to DVLA with appropriate forms (no charge to register). when you have the new reg. docs. you are now legal to tow with a non EU approved tow bar and your road tax will go down by quite a wedge.
We pay our Motorhome road tax monthly @ £14.43 which adds up to £173.16 and it's a 3,800kg vehicle
You can always take the cooker etc. out if it's in a small pod. In fact we could buy a communal pod to lend out just for the re-categorising of Elgrands LOL !
 

MrRob_in

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It came with American/ Canadian certification of weight limits but no it wasn’t entered on V5. (It probably should have been).
My contention would be that it isn’t a Type Approved vehicle so pre 1998 rules apply.
 

MrRob_in

Part of the furniture (please de-cat your e51/2)
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Just to add to the discussion. I asked the question of type approval towing etc.from a traffic cop and he said, as far as they understood it "No EU type approval on foreign grey imports means reverting back to 1998 regs". I thought it was just an interesting comment.
To add to the equation, If you have a motorhome, classified with DVLA as "Motor Caravan" If it was registered after 2011 it needs an EU type approved tow bar, but prior to this you can have one made or make your own.
So the answer is, put in some form of cooking device a sink and fixed table, the seats can be your bed, take several photos one of which should include a shot of the number plate, send all off to DVLA with appropriate forms (no charge to register). when you have the new reg. docs. you are now legal to tow with a non EU approved tow bar and your road tax will go down by quite a wedge.
We pay our Motorhome road tax monthly @ £14.43 which adds up to £173.16 and it's a 3,800kg vehicle
You can always take the cooker etc. out if it's in a small pod. In fact we could buy a communal pod to lend out just for the re-categorising of Elgrands LOL !
Yep Type Approval towing regs only apply to Cars. Full stop. Motorcycles and Vans over 3500kg aren’t Cars. ;)
My Chevy van is 4,400kg and pays same as you it’s not motorhome dependent so I’m not sure conversion would affect the rules governing towing anyway.
 

stevemen

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Premium Member
E51 Owner
Nice work Mike. Isn't it a shame though that the DVLA , the DVSA and the DFT don't know the rules and laws regarding towing.
I noticed on the log book that there is no entry under towing weights.
Now Nissan themselves have come forward thanks to your email to them to state that the Elgrand wasn't manufactured with a view to towing.
On one of my calls to the DVLA they said one option would be to get the weights off Nissan themselves, that option has now expired.
So the next question is , is it possible to have the Elgrand put through a test over here to allow it to tow? such as a test at a Vosa station or the like?
I wouldn' worry about it mate, you would just end up making a rod for everyone else's back and theres not a piece of paper in the world that can make up for common sense.you dont know they dont know the police dont know, wheres the problem?(and if its a 4x4 it will have massive towing capabilities anyway, all 4x4s have)...just hitch up and tow away, biggest problem will be finding an e51 Towbar at a sensible price or finding one at all.
Steve
Elgrandcarparts.co.uk
 

MrRob_in

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I wouldn' worry about it mate, you would just end up making a rod for everyone else's back and theres not a piece of paper in the world that can make up for common sense.you dont know they dont know the police dont know, wheres the problem?(and if its a 4x4 it will have massive towing capabilities anyway, all 4x4s have)...just hitch up and tow away, biggest problem will be finding an e51 Towbar at a sensible price or finding one at all.
Steve
Elgrandcarparts.co.uk
But Watling Engineers and all the NZ & Most Australian tow bar manufacturer only rate there mountings, & bars at 1400kg. Some Australian guys quote 1600kg but after a bit of digging they are only rating their bars NOT the car.
Murano is 1400kg ish iirc same with Qashqai both 4wd with similar engineering of mounting points (I’m told).
 

stevemen

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E51 Owner
But Watling Engineers and all the NZ & Most Australian tow bar manufacturer only rate there mountings, & bars at 1400kg. Some Australian guys quote 1600kg but after a bit of digging they are only rating their bars NOT the car.
Murano is 1400kg ish iirc same with Qashqai both 4wd with similar engineering of mounting points (I’m told).
If it a tourer caravan your towing I wouldnt worry to much about it, they are all more than capable of pulling tourers....if its a fully loaded builders 3.5tn trailer.....well that's another matter
 

DaveC.

Member
Premium Member
E51 Owner
Towbar.jpg I had a tow bar made for my Motorhome based on a 316 Sprinter chassis, the chap only makes tow bars and has done so for 30yrs. If it's a pre 2011 reg. vehicle he can just make and fit from steel stocked, if its a later registration he has type approved kits which he is allowed to fabricate to fit and supply you with a certificate of conformity.
When I pick my Elgrand up, I may nip over to Freckleton Nr Preston and let him have a look, with a view to making a more substantial connection to the vehicle than is currently used. You never Know !
The photo is of the bar he made and fitted to my motorhome whilst I waited. Top quality !
 

stevemen

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E51 Owner
View attachment 1679 I had a tow bar made for my Motorhome based on a 316 Sprinter chassis, the chap only makes tow bars and has done so for 30yrs. If it's a pre 2011 reg. vehicle he can just make and fit from steel stocked, if its a later registration he has type approved kits which he is allowed to fabricate to fit and supply you with a certificate of conformity.
When I pick my Elgrand up, I may nip over to Freckleton Nr Preston and let him have a look, with a view to making a more substantial connection to the vehicle than is currently used. You never Know !
The photo is of the bar he made and fitted to my motorhome whilst I waited. Top quality !
The current Towbar are more than capable of pulling anything the elgrand is likely to tow mate., believe me I've removed and fitted a few , they are a substantial bit of kit. The hardest thing is getting hold of them at a reasonable price. Darling and a few others advertise them at a price, but when you try actually buying them it escalates
 

DaveC.

Member
Premium Member
E51 Owner
Towbars Direct below supply with single electric kit and 50m ball £135 Free P & P Ebay as per link.
They will supply and fit at their place for £305.
The firm supplying my Elgrand has quoted me £295 with single electrics. They say it's good for 1500kg

Towbars Direct
Norbrook Trailers Ltd
Tarporley Road (A49)
Whitley
Warrington
Cheshire
WA4 4DS

T: 01925 730 005
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Towbar-fo...lgrand&hash=item238d3d69d0:g:Kg4AAOSwhxBZsBCO
 

stevemen

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Premium Member
E51 Owner
Towbars Direct below supply with single electric kit and 50m ball £135 Free P & P Ebay as per link.
They will supply and fit at their place for £305.
The firm supplying my Elgrand has quoted me £295 with single electrics. They say it's good for 1500kg

Towbars Direct
Norbrook Trailers Ltd
Tarporley Road (A49)
Whitley
Warrington
Cheshire
WA4 4DS

T: 01925 730 005
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Towbar-for-Nissan-Elgrand-E51-2002-to-2010-import-Tow-Trust-NiS2-El-Grand/152693467600?fits=Model:Elgrand&hash=item238d3d69d0:g:Kg4AAOSwhxBZsBCO
Will be interesting to see if that' the final price once it' all been fitted. Iv spoken to quite a number of e51 owners that have ended up paying well in excess of £400 once the job has been done and they go to pick it up. Let us know once you'e had it done
 

Len

Active Member
Premium Member
I have had fitted to my Bedstead (10 tonne) a towbar capable of 4500 Kg. But the maximum that you can put onto a 50 mm towball is 3500 kg. Then you have to find tyres that are rated for that load. My car carrying trailer with 4 wheels needs to have 104/106 rated tyres so that they are capable of carrying more than 3.5 tonnes.

The towing vehicle has to be rated to tow the load, and usually the manufacturers will only fit a towbar suitable for the towing allowed for that vehicle. The maximum unbraked towing is 750 Kg for all vehicles, but with a braking system you can exceed the 750 Kg. My Subaru 2 litre was allowed to tow more than a Ford Falcon (about the size of a Mondeo) even though it was a 3.9 litre, 6 cylinder.

That is the situation in Oz, and most manufacturers will not exceed the rules on fitting towbars that are subject to inspection and random roadworthy checks while you are undergoing a random breath and drug test. On one trip of 1200 Km, I was breath tested four times and 0.05 is the allowable limit, and that was in the one day!

I have towed quite a bit, but not yet on the motorbike, and you should get the bathroom scales out and keep the tongue weight down to 10% of the gross load being towed.
 

Biffo

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
E51 Owner
The problem with the Elgrand, it's not the towbar itself that is the restriction, it's the available mounting points on the chassis and the strength around them.
 

stevemen

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Premium Member
E51 Owner
All the e51 towbars I've seen, removed and fitted have been well bolted through the longitudinal chassis members. No issues at all there, you would pull the back end of the truck off before the Towbar came away.
The only problem I can see is people worrying because they haven't got a piece of paper telling them they can do it. I' m from the old school , shove the bit of paper where the sun don't shine and just get on with it otherwise you never get nowt done.
 

Steve~Mk1

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E50 Owner
Premium Member
All the e51 towbars I've seen, removed and fitted have been well bolted through the longitudinal chassis members. No issues at all there, you would pull the back end of the truck off before the Towbar came away.
The only problem I can see is people worrying because they haven't got a piece of paper telling them they can do it. I' m from the old school , shove the bit of paper where the sun don't shine and just get on with it otherwise you never get nowt done.
+1 : The Watling Engineers towbar on my E50 bolts to the chassis rails, and is built like a brick out-house.
 

Len

Active Member
Premium Member
While internet cruising this evening , I found this which gives the E50 and E51 towing capacity as 1400 Kgs. They can supply a DIY kit for around AUD695 (GBP400), plus freight. The price would be a bit lower, as the 10% GST would not be applicable on an exported item. They are also offering telephone advice but be aware that Oz is +10 hours to UTC.

Have a look at URL https://www.towbarsaustralia.com.au/towbar-kits/elgrand-e51
 

DaveC.

Member
Premium Member
E51 Owner
Just had a Tow bar fitted by TTT Towbars of Northwich Cheshire £260 with single electrics.
Whilst the bar is very substantial and the fitter said it looks as capable as all the other bars he fits, it doesn't have a specified load capability so no weight guarantee.
 

Biffo

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
E51 Owner
The Watling towbar is also very substantial it self, but it's where it's bolted to on the chassis that's the problem, the mounting bolts are very close together which is not ideal for towbar mounts, that's why Watlings recommend 1400kg, I pushed them, as even an average car weighs more than that, they then said definitely no more than 1500kg as they've seen the rear of Elgrands chassis severely damaged by people who ignored this.
 

DaveC.

Member
Premium Member
E51 Owner
My Tow Bar is fitted to the location of the O/S tow/recovery hitch on the rear. The N/S is bolted through the chassis that was drilled by the fitter and tubular sleeves fitted. Both sides have very substantial bolts and look totally secure.
If the Elgrand is around 2 ton and can be recovered on one O/S recovery hitch, then the Tow Bar with two similar anchor points should be more than capable of towing a large caravan or trailer. My trailer with trike weighs in at 1,200kg and I will be quite confident towing it with the Elgrand.