Towing may be illegal, (no straight answer given)

Madfish

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#2
Yup, we had the same problem over on UKlegacy with our JDM only legacy GTB.

Couldn't legally tow with them as train weights not on VIN.

Insurance companies will jump on this fact come claim time...
 

MrRob_in

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#3
Yes, I've been pointing this fact out for years, well ever since I bought my e51 in 2009, as it affects all non Euro/EU market specification cars & vans.

Add to this the fact that there are no official tow or train weight specs published anywhere by Nissan.

I fitted my Towbar mostly to move my caravan about on private land.

Given how scary I found towing a twin axle horse trailer with my e51 I'll not tow on road again anyway.

The insurers of my Chevy campervan have confirmed they are happy with the tow limits stated on the factory issued specification sheet (and internal sticker) on my Canadian spec van. Not sure what DVSA would make of it.
 

MrRob_in

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#4
I'd put money of DVSA saying its up to Nissan to issue a vin with details on it.

its only the manufacturer that can certify weights for cars & vans up to 3500kg.
 

Nustad

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#6

malcolmyz85

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#7
hi,i read on vosa exactly the same if its not on vin you are not allowed to tow with it.as I tow quite a lot so have just bought a navara ,so hope somebody can find some way for it to be legal cus elgrands are much fun to drive.i had planned to do a 4x4 e50 up espo for towing our caravan but will prob have to sell as a on going project
 

Steve~Mk1

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#9
Gov.uk guidance is notoriously vague and simplified.

If you look into this in more detail it seems to concern the changes required for manufacturers on cars first registered on/after August 1998. My understanding is that after that date they had to stamp a gross train weight on the VIN if the car was suitable for towing, and any towbars had to be type approved/CE marked (you couldn't weld together your own).

So in theory as my E50 was 'first registered on 01 12 1997' on the V5, the rules on having a type approved towbar and displaying a gross train weight on the VIN shouldn't apply to her: http://www.watling-towbars.co.uk/towbar_fitting_hertfordshire.html
However, if you read the Watling guide it also says it doesn't apply to imported vehicles - maybe Watling know the answer?
 

MrRob_in

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#11
I'm OK then - my E51 is registered as a motorhome!
? You still need a vin / chassis plate with GTW on it to tow Legally.
 
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Steve~Mk1

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#12
I emailed 2 towbar manufacturers/retailers about this (ones who sell towbars for Jap imports), and their response was that as a grey import the requirement for the weights to be shown on the VIN plate does not apply, as the vehicles are/were not type approved in the EU. One confirmed that in the 20 years they'd been producing towbars for imports they have not had any legal issues over their use.

There’s some info here about the Bongo and towing: https://www.lifesure.co.uk/blog/2014/02/mazda-bongo-towing-weights/
 

MrRob_in

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#13
I emailed 2 towbar manufacturers/retailers about this (ones who sell towbars for Jap imports), and their response was that as a grey import the requirement for the weights to be shown on the VIN plate does not apply, as the vehicles are/were not type approved in the EU. One confirmed that in the 20 years they'd been producing towbars for imports they have not had any legal issues over their use.

There’s some info here about the Bongo and towing: https://www.lifesure.co.uk/blog/2014/02/mazda-bongo-towing-weights/
Can you quote or link to the legislation that provides that exemption to the VIN plate requirements? Additionally we'd need to know & the tow weights (both tongue & train weights) Nissan have authorised for all versions of Elgrand.
 

malcolmyz85

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#14
I emailed 2 towbar manufacturers/retailers about this (ones who sell towbars for Jap imports), and their response was that as a grey import the requirement for the weights to be shown on the VIN plate does not apply, as the vehicles are/were not type approved in the EU. One confirmed that in the 20 years they'd been producing towbars for imports they have not had any legal issues over their use.

There’s some info here about the Bongo and towing: https://www.lifesure.co.uk/blog/2014/02/mazda-bongo-towing-weights/
if this is correct I have just wasted a decent amount of money on a new tow motor.might not have to sell my project yet
 

Nustad

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#15
OK so this morning I made a few calls.
First I rang the DVLA who told me to ring the DVSA. I rang the DVSA who told me to ring the Department for transport who told me I needed to ring either VOSA , who are now under the DVSA umbrella, or the DVLA.
When I explained that I had already rung both of them she put me on hold then returned to advise me to call the DVLA.
I called the DVLA again who advised me to Email the IVS and that they don't have a contact number for them.
Emailing now.
 

Nustad

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#16
I have just dropped an email to Nissan UK.
I know nothing about towing, have no need to tow anything, however it is something which could do with a definitive yes or no.
 

micky_h

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#17
Got a reply from Nissan Japan and the Elgrand is not homologated to tow,



Towing capacity, And Gross Train Weight
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03:31



To: mike halford






April 7, 2016


Dear Mr. mike halford:


This is in reply to your email dated April 7, 2016, concerning your Nissan Elgrand. First of all, thank you for your patronage of our products.

With regard to your inquiry, we regret to say that an Elgrand was not manufactured (homologated) to tow,

We hope the information will be useful for you.


Sincerely yours,



Chikako TAGUCHI
Customer Communication Center
NISSAN MOTOR Co., LTD.



So if ur towing and ur insurance find out, u wont be covered


mike
 

MrRob_in

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#18
Got a reply from Nissan Japan and the Elgrand is not homologated to tow,



Towing capacity, And Gross Train Weight
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03:31



To: mike halford






April 7, 2016


Dear Mr. mike halford:


This is in reply to your email dated April 7, 2016, concerning your Nissan Elgrand. First of all, thank you for your patronage of our products.

With regard to your inquiry, we regret to say that an Elgrand was not manufactured (homologated) to tow,

We hope the information will be useful for you.


Sincerely yours,



Chikako TAGUCHI
Customer Communication Center
NISSAN MOTOR Co., LTD.



So if ur towing and ur insurance find out, u wont be covered


mike
So it is final, VOSA & court system can prosecute you for towing with an e51 & you will have no defence in Law if you chose to tow. You will be outside the 'cover' of your insurance so can be held liable for that too.
It's not worth the risks IMO so I'll tow only with vehicles with manufacturer certified tow capacity if GTW isn't on the VIN / Chassis Plate
 

MrRob_in

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#19
@micky_h can you post that to all the Facebook groups? There will be plenty of people affected by this fact.
 

Nustad

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#20
Nice work Mike. Isn't it a shame though that the DVLA , the DVSA and the DFT don't know the rules and laws regarding towing.
I noticed on the log book that there is no entry under towing weights.
Now Nissan themselves have come forward thanks to your email to them to state that the Elgrand wasn't manufactured with a view to towing.
On one of my calls to the DVLA they said one option would be to get the weights off Nissan themselves, that option has now expired.
So the next question is , is it possible to have the Elgrand put through a test over here to allow it to tow? such as a test at a Vosa station or the like?