Rest Of World Timing chains and sprockets replacement

[boolsifter]

Hello from Queensland,
Looks like I'm up for the timing chain and sprockets replacement. I have about 150,000 kilometers, so it appears I am overdue as service says 100,000 kilometers.

For the moment we are using our 2019 Isuzu d'max X Rider, but it has no handicap lift, so I am lifting our 30 year old daughter with MS and a host of other issues, into the right rear of the d'max, oh my aching 71 year old back.
XL seat from Startracks USA
I have been trying to buy one of these, but with the COVID19 lockdown, having trouble getting in touch with the supplier in Elkhart, Indiana USA. Shipping is also a nightmare. Phil

 

[Carl archer]

you can order most parts online or through ebay for timing gear. There are also multiple sites to get stuff from japan. I usually search E51 part from japan and It will bring up a list of suppliers with genuine parts

 

[Kenzie (Mary Poppins)]

Sure timing was nil service

 

[Lize]

@Pixelpoker did his timing chain amongst various other works. Not his first post but some info here:

https://forum.elgrandoc.uk/threads/timing-chain.18246/#post-230109

If your daughter isn't driving maybe you could look for a second hand Welcab seat from an Elgrand Enchant? Nissan offered front and mid row passenger motorised seats as an option although neither lifts the chair. Might be a bit of a long shot too.

 

[Pixelpoker]

From experience only buy genuine Nissan parts, not eBay garbage. I bought eBay parts and I did mine last year. 1 year later in did them again as all the chains had stretched !!

“Buy cheap, pay twice”

I got mine direct from Japan:

front and rear chains
3xhydraulic tensioners
All sprockets and seals
Water pump )you may as well change that if you have the front cover off)
New oil seal (the paper one will be leaking I reckon)
New chain tensioners and guides

Total price before U.K. import duties - £450☹

it’s a big old job to do the rear chains as you have to take off the valve covers and all the front sprockets to get to the rear tensioners. It took around 15 hrs to disassemble and reassemble.

 

[Jeremias.roge]

Hi guys, sorry for the silly question but it’s really necessary to change the timing chain at 100k km? Chain don’t worn as much as belts

 

[boolsifter]

Hello Jeramias, I didn't, then at 150K, it didn't have the power to pull up Balmoral Ridge range, plus the fuel economy went to dishonorable lows. I had the timing chains and sprockets replaced, and it gets up the range without problem. So perhaps the answer is no to being required to change them at 100k, you will likely have steady decrease in performance and economy. I am told that when the chains get sloppy, engine damage can occur. The whole job cost me around $1400, plus I purchased the kit with chains sprockets, tensioners etc...
ebay timing chain set kit
I had a Commodore VZ that developed the same timing chain issue, but the engine got trashed. So changing them seems advisable. The improvement in economy will help pay the bill, and daughter gets to use the handicap seat lift, instead of the Phil-Lift....Phil

 

[Kenzie (Mary Poppins)]

Hello Jeramias, I didn't, then at 150K, it didn't have the power to pull up Balmoral Ridge range, plus the fuel economy went to dishonorable lows. I had the timing chains and sprockets replaced, and it gets up the range without problem. So perhaps the answer is no to being required to change them at 100k, you will likely have steady decrease in performance and economy. I am told that when the chains get sloppy, engine damage can occur. The whole job cost me around $1400, plus I purchased the kit with chains sprockets, tensioners etc...
ebay timing chain set kit
I had a Commodore VZ that developed the same timing chain issue, but the engine got trashed. So changing them seems advisable. The improvement in economy will help pay the bill, and daughter gets to use the handicap seat lift, instead of the Phil-Lift....Phil

How did you work the pay back out as if I dint pay for fuel for 35 weeks it would only just pay it and thsts a average of 100 liters per week iv never known a chain engine break that has been regularly serviced not that it couldn't but very hard

 

[boolsifter]

For me the payback was not risking my 71 year old back lifting 30 year old daughter in and out of my 2019 Isuzu D'Max. For you the payback may be calculated differently. I can do it today, but I am aging and she is adult size at about 56 kilograms..Phil

 

[Kenzie (Mary Poppins)]

For me the payback was not risking my 71 year old back lifting 30 year old daughter in and out of my 2019 Isuzu D'Max. For you the payback may be calculated differently. I can do it today, but I am aging and she is adult size at about 56 kilograms..Phil

I get what you mean as the dmax not very disability friendly when it comes to ramps or hoists but there are some about incase you ever need them

 

[djaolnes2]

Someone else was talking about replacing the timing chain, but as far as I know unless there are problems with them, you just don't change them.

Is there some service manual somewhere that says that they need to be replaced at 150k km? I just don't agree with it. If it were a timing belt, sure, but probably earlier than that. Not for a timing chain.

The tensioner might have been worn?

The VZ commodore, with the Alloytec engine, is a red herring. With that engine Holden ended up with a chain that stretched far too early and they released a new spec timing chain and tensioners. The same engine went into the Captiva, with the same problem. It wasn't a normal problem to have. I doubt Nissan stuffed up the same way, as the alloytec was a new engine for Holden at the time.

Yes, I can imagine the welcab seat is a back saver. I have one in my van but have no need for it, but the things are HEAVY. When I first removed it I estimated 100+kgs. When I reinstalled it I revised it at 200Kgs+. I couldn't lift it, but had to shuffle and flip it into the van! For those that ever try and remove one, I found that I had to figure out what wires to bridge to convince the car that the seat was not deployed as otherwise it will lock the gearshift to stop you driving away and beeps at you.

 

[Kenzie (Mary Poppins)]

Someone else was talking about replacing the timing chain, but as far as I know unless there are problems with them, you just don't change them.

Is there some service manual somewhere that says that they need to be replaced at 150k km? I just don't agree with it. If it were a timing belt, sure, but probably earlier than that. Not for a timing chain.

The tensioner might have been worn?

The VZ commodore, with the Alloytec engine, is a red herring. With that engine Holden ended up with a chain that stretched far too early and they released a new spec timing chain and tensioners. The same engine went into the Captiva, with the same problem. It wasn't a normal problem to have. I doubt Nissan stuffed up the same way, as the alloytec was a new engine for Holden at the time.

Yes, I can imagine the welcab seat is a back saver. I have one in my van but have no need for it, but the things are HEAVY. When I first removed it I estimated 100+kgs. When I reinstalled it I revised it at 200Kgs+. I couldn't lift it, but had to shuffle and flip it into the van! For those that ever try and remove one, I found that I had to figure out what wires to bridge to convince the car that the seat was not deployed as otherwise it will lock the gearshift to stop you driving away and beeps at you.

Maual says no service life time part

Also don't forget the engine is de tuned compared to normal so carnt be driven as hard which inturn will make all parts last longer

 

[boolsifter]

I am designing and plan to build a disability seat lift for the dmax. Right now I bend over pick her up like a baby, and then make a swinging toss, to land her on the dmax seat. I've been doing this often, and it has become a bit easier, however at my age probably not advisable.

 

[boolsifter]

RE: Timing Chains
VQ35DE engine is known the world over for timing chain problems. Just give it a google. I did, and there were far too many to post here.
VQ35DE timing chain problems The alloytec designers never imagined how hot double overhead cams get. About the same time every automobile manufacturer in the world was also changing over to double overhead cam, and most have the timing chain issue. There are some shade tree mechanic solutions, one is to install an auxiliary oil lubrication that sprays oil on the tops of the timing chains, seeking to reduce the temperature. Last year, my family made the long haul down to Melbourne, and Adelaide, and during that trip the temperatures were above 40 C. It was so hot birds and bats were falling out of the sky, or out of trees. My reversing camera and display died. The vehicle electronics did really strange stuff, and the power steering pump cavitated loosing power steering. The front wheel bearings started screaming, and I changed them in Adelaide. This could have contributed. However the VQ35DE is known for timing chain issues. Nissan GTRs (my son-in-law had one) had the timing chain issue. Wish it were not true, but why should Nissan be immune to problems all the manufacturers had. BMW had timing chain issues.
https://www.bimmerforums.co.uk/threads/2002-318ci-timing-chain-issues.331433/

 

[Kenzie (Mary Poppins)]

RE: Timing Chains
VQ35DE engine is known the world over for timing chain problems. Just give it a google. I did, and there were far too many to post here.
VQ35DE timing chain problems The alloytec designers never imagined how hot double overhead cams get. About the same time every automobile manufacturer in the world was also changing over to double overhead cam, and most have the timing chain issue. There are some shade tree mechanic solutions, one is to install an auxiliary oil lubrication that sprays oil on the tops of the timing chains, seeking to reduce the temperature. Last year, my family made the long haul down to Melbourne, and Adelaide, and during that trip the temperatures were above 40 C. It was so hot birds and bats were falling out of the sky, or out of trees. My reversing camera and display died. The vehicle electronics did really strange stuff, and the power steering pump cavitated loosing power steering. The front wheel bearings started screaming, and I changed them in Adelaide. This could have contributed. However the VQ35DE is known for timing chain issues. Nissan GTRs (my son-in-law had one) had the timing chain issue. Wish it were not true, but why should Nissan be immune to problems all the manufacturers had. BMW had timing chain issues.
https://www.bimmerforums.co.uk/threads/2002-318ci-timing-chain-issues.331433/

My s5 has the same timing issues but other than a mere hand full of us how many service every 3250 miles / 6 k keeping the oil galleries clear etc all cars could run forever giving there looked after correctly
Most people want rid of cars after 100000k
Iv seen 250000k
Most people want rid of vans at 250000k iv seen plenty hit 500000k
Most want rid of trucks by 400000k but iv seen trucks used daily with 1/2 million miles on the clock its all maintenance
My advice would be any vehicle with a chain treat as though it'd a turbo let engine warm up before use and cool down after use letting the oil circulate freely as the chain will be dry on initial crank
Back to the audi s5 iv picked it up for loud chain every time its a known problem and recall but never done but aslong as its in the job card there's proof incase it dose go wrong iv never known or the VQ35DE to have suffered the same fate a few forums with people saying better to treat than to cure but again don't forget there mainly in a lot sportier cars with more hp causing more problems

 

[Lacabrera]

With regard to timing chains the VQ35DE engine fitted to the Elgrand uses a different timing chains and sprockets compared to 350z, maxima and pathfinder and possibly others. The Elgrand generally does not suffer the same problems as the other vehicals because the main tensioner has a different design.

 

[boolsifter]

The signals of timing chain problems are the rattle, loss of fuel economy, loss of power, and if you experience these signals, changing the timing chains sooner rather than later is wise. The extreme heat of the chains causes the steel the chains are made of to loose their temper. Then the steel stretches and wears, wearing the sprockets and tensioners. The long term fix was to change to sprockets with double the number of teeth, and chains with much smaller links. This ended up being universal across all automobile manufacturers, but it took 3 to 4 years to implement. That is why cars between 2002 to 2005 or 2006 usually have timing chain problems. Some do continue driving them with the rattle, and that is a choice, but then I have also seen catastrophic engine failures, like in one case the timing chains became loose and sloppy, and the valves were still open when the piston came to the top, knocking a hole in the piston, and sometimes more than one. The ground metal particles, the caked carbon from the superheated oil trashed everything else, so the engines were not rebuildable. One friend had the BMW SUV (forgot the vehicle name) and replaced the engine with a post timing chain issue engine. The problem was universal, throughout the automobile industry, so much so that they shared solutions, that were adopted across the industry. A team of consultants, moved from manufacturer to manufacturer, showing them how to fix the problem...Phil

 

[Kenzie (Mary Poppins)]

The signals of timing chain problems are the rattle, loss of fuel economy, loss of power, and if you experience these signals, changing the timing chains sooner rather than later is wise. The extreme heat of the chains causes the steel the chains are made of to loose their temper. Then the steel stretches and wears, wearing the sprockets and tensioners. The long term fix was to change to sprockets with double the number of teeth, and chains with much smaller links. This ended up being universal across all automobile manufacturers, but it took 3 to 4 years to implement. That is why cars between 2002 to 2005 or 2006 usually have timing chain problems. Some do continue driving them with the rattle, and that is a choice, but then I have also seen catastrophic engine failures, like in one case the timing chains became loose and sloppy, and the valves were still open when the piston came to the top, knocking a hole in the piston, and sometimes more than one. The ground metal particles, the caked carbon from the superheated oil trashed everything else, so the engines were not rebuildable. One friend had the BMW SUV (forgot the vehicle name) and replaced the engine with a post timing chain issue engine. The problem was universal, throughout the automobile industry, so much so that they shared solutions, that were adopted across the industry. A team of consultants, moved from manufacturer to manufacturer, showing them how to fix the problem...Phil

Iv personally been working on cars for 17 years and never experienced any problems with timing chains other than a 2012 zafira and 2015 zafira where the chain had jumped a gear but both cars were driven like they were stole and was the tensioner that needed sorting not the chain maybe slightly different in ozzyland but in the uk we rarely se above 15c and when we do its not for long but like previously said all the VQ35DE engines you know that have gone wrong how many were serviced at 3250 miles or 6 k so so far since March my car has been serviced 4 times and it's having a 5th this weekend due to the milage I cover

 

[boolsifter]

The answers to service questions were not part of the manufacturer's tracking of problems. Servicing does have a direct impact on failures, however automobile manufacturers are expected to keep failures of any kind to a minimum. The failure tracking system basically involves number of customer complaints about a particular issue. A customer complaint could be made when the engine was operated without oil, but the complaint is still valid. The reason, when the number of customer conplaints reaches a certain threshold level, governments issue a recall order. What causes the failure is irrelevant. The vast number of timing chain complaints says something is wrong, even if is the customer's fault. Old owner's maunals explained how to adjust the valves in the engine, whereas modern manuals tell you not to drink the gasoline. The liability of manufacturing automobiles is nearly without limit. For examploe, a lawsuit was won against a automobile manufacturer because the customer's knee hit the ignition key, turning the engine off. The power steering was lost, and the customer lost control of the vehicle and wrecked. Governments measure performance of automobile companies by the number of customer complaints, without regard to the reason for the complaint. The automobile manufacturers respond to these figures, because future automobile sales are at stake if not properly responded to. Phil

 

[Kenzie (Mary Poppins)]

Ag

The answers to service questions were not part of the manufacturer's tracking of problems. Servicing does have a direct impact on failures, however automobile manufacturers are expected to keep failures of any kind to a minimum. The failure tracking system basically involves number of customer complaints about a particular issue. A customer complaint could be made when the engine was operated without oil, but the complaint is still valid. The reason, when the number of customer conplaints reaches a certain threshold level, governments issue a recall order. What causes the failure is irrelevant. The vast number of timing chain complaints says something is wrong, even if is the customer's fault. Old owner's maunals explained how to adjust the valves in the engine, whereas modern manuals tell you not to drink the gasoline. The liability of manufacturing automobiles is nearly without limit. For examploe, a lawsuit was won against a automobile manufacturer because the customer's knee hit the ignition key, turning the engine off. The power steering was lost, and the customer lost control of the vehicle and wrecked. Governments measure performance of automobile companies by the number of customer complaints, without regard to the reason for the complaint. The automobile manufacturers respond to these figures, because future automobile sales are at stake if not properly responded to. Phil

Again I fully agree with you buddy but I'm I look at both sides of facts yes chin might ware out but if it's down to lack of service when it requires service that's not a engine fault that's a consumer fault
Now do I pay 15 quid to service every 3 months or 1500 for a chain when it gose wrong that would work out the same as cost for 100 services spread over 25 years give or take but on your train of thought can you imagine the amount of cam belts iv changed or replaced engines due to a customer coming in with 125000+miles on the car 10 years+ old but it's recommended at 5 years or 60000 would you still say that it would be a manufacturers problem or a user problem