Fuel Economy

Lpgc

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
#21
Have just gone over the 100,000 K mark in the Cho , thats only 72,000 K in 14 months , on petrol , if I had wanted to save fuel I wouldnt have bought an Elgie , why buy a thirsty big vehicle and then spend to make it economical ? , plenty of 1.9 T4s about to do the same job cheaper , however I wouldnt have met such a nice bunch of people on this forum , always ready to accept the diversity of the group and not judge or preach or use it as a marketing media .
There are some great people on this forum, I've met a lot of them in person when I fitted their LPG system. There will also be some nice people on VW forums, I converted a petrol VW T4 a couple of weeks ago, nice guy.

72000Km (44738 miles) in 14 months, say you drove with a light foot and got 25mpg that's 1789 gallons of petrol costing £9770. Could have saved £4500 on fuel in 14 months, LPG conversion would have paid for itself within 5 months and you'd be £2900 better off already, £7400 better off in another 14 months. But like you said, you could have saved the same by running a diesel VW instead. But you don't seem to like diesel VWs as much as petrol Elgrands and it seems Steviejay doesn't like diesel VWs as much as petrol Elgrands either. And while you're not bothered about how much you spend on fuel, it seems Steviejay and most other people are bothered.

Why not buy the vehicle you really want and then spend a bit more to make it economical to run?

Saving £4500 every 14 months you could save enough to buy another Elgrand fairly quickly and, if you did then decide you didn't like LPG after it had saved you all that money you might not bother converting the next Elgrand to LPG. But you could look at it in terms that running an Elgrand on LPG for a few years effectively gets you an Elgrand for free. I know you don't like LPG conversions, not sure why though. Have you ever driven an Elgrand I converted? If so, could you tell the difference between running on petrol and running on LPG? Do you have any concerns about LPG conversions that would make you rather run a VW diesel instead of your Elgrand than convert your Elgrand to LPG if you didn't want to spend £7400 in 14 months on petrol?
 

Karl

Founder
Staff member
E50 Owner
Premium Member
E50 Expert
#22
I agree with @Lpgc here. Most people like the Elgrand for how it looks, it's quirky character and the fact it's something different to the norm. On the off side, a lot of people are put off due to running costs.

Now, if you compare a diesel T5 to a petrol E51, then regardless of how much extra you spend on fuel, you save it through lack of maintenance required. Most diesel T5's require an engine rebuild at around 70k miles, and other reliability issues are a factor.

But people don't see that. They don't think "ooh, how much am I going to spend this year on repairs", they think "how much am I going to spend this week on fuel".

Now, if the Elgrand ticks all of the right boxes, but the "fuel cost" box is unticked, why not do something to tick it? Spending £1500 to make it more economical without ANY drawbacks is not a problem. Most people do not have the luxury to not worry about fuel expenses, and you're right, those people should buy something they can afford to run. But if you have the initial capital to invest in your car and MAKE it economical enough for you to run, what's the downside? Why would you then subject yourself to running something you don't want just because you don't have to "modify" it to make it how you want it?

If you want to go down that route, why does ANYONE modify their cars? If you want a car with a big spoiler, buy one with a big spoiler. If you want a car that has a big exhaust, buy one with a big exhaust. If you want a car with 20" rims, buy a car with 20" rims... Why does anyone modify their car to make it how they want it?
 

MrRob_in

Part of the furniture (please de-cat your e51/2)
Staff member
Premium Member
E51 Expert
E51 Owner
#23
TBH it’s only a economic decision to lpg, not best parctace for reliability, power, ease of maintenance. Agreed if you don’t like spending money on fuel a s want to save for pointless modding your car’s looks or going on holiday then cool.
I’d have to drive 20 miles to fill up with lpg so I’d need to factor that into my time/cost calculations too ;)
 

Lpgc

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
#24
TBH it’s only a economic decision to lpg, not best parctace for reliability, power, ease of maintenance. Agreed if you don’t like spending money on fuel a s want to save for pointless modding your car’s looks or going on holiday then cool.
I’d have to drive 20 miles to fill up with lpg so I’d need to factor that into my time/cost calculations too ;)
For sure those points can be a negative factor for some people Rob, but if you're doing 44738 miles in 14 months you're going to pass a lot of LPG stations...
Also, some in your (new) position could spend a bit more and have a bulk LPG tank at home, gas delivered to them, fill up at home. Decide on whether to stay legal and pay road duty on it, or illegally run their car on fuel that might cost under 40p per litre and is indistinguishable from LPG bought on a forecourt (unlike, say, red diesel or veg oil).
 

Travellingman

Well-Known Member
E50 Owner
Premium Member
#25
For sure those points can be a negative factor for some people Rob, but if you're doing 44738 miles in 14 months you're going to pass a lot of LPG stations...
Also, some in your (new) position could spend a bit more and have a bulk LPG tank at home, gas delivered to them, fill up at home. Decide on whether to stay legal and pay road duty on it, or illegally run their car on fuel that might cost under 40p per litre and is indistinguishable from LPG bought on a forecourt (unlike, say, red diesel or veg oil).
ah the debate again , as you and i have discussed before , I dont give two f*cks about how much petrol i use , i will happily pass every LPG pump from now till the day I die , if you wish to spend your time in endless calculations about how much money I might have saved , go ahead Knock yourself out , oh and thats the second time to my knowledge that you have suggested on this forum using Lpg without paying the duty on it . Knock Knock , "who,s there ?" Her Majestys Revenue and Customs , Boom Boom :(
 

MrRob_in

Part of the furniture (please de-cat your e51/2)
Staff member
Premium Member
E51 Expert
E51 Owner
#26
For sure those points can be a negative factor for some people Rob, but if you're doing 44738 miles in 14 months you're going to pass a lot of LPG stations...
Also, some in your (new) position could spend a bit more and have a bulk LPG tank at home, gas delivered to them, fill up at home. Decide on whether to stay legal and pay road duty on it, or illegally run their car on fuel that might cost under 40p per litre and is indistinguishable from LPG bought on a forecourt (unlike, say, red diesel or veg oil).
Yep, don’t want the hassle/ worry even though I’ve got domestic lpg. If I was doing 20k like I was when I lpg-ed my first e51 rather than 8k max now ... actually probably closer to 6k miles pa I’d considered it further.
 

Lpgc

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
#27
Yes, looks like you've started that debate again ;-) The one where I said everyone has their limit on what they think is sensible to spend on fuel and to many people £7k in 14 months would seem insensible, where even you might start to question the wisdom of running the same car if it only did 12.5mpg, 6.25mpg or 3.125mpg. If the Elgrand did one of those mpg figures and you didn't want to run on LPG, looks like at one of those points it would be you that would be running the diesel VW T4 while others ran the Elgrand you'd really prefer to be driving. The calculation isn't difficult, if people tell us how much they spend on petrol, the potential saving from an LPG conversion is about half whatever they say.

I haven't suggested people don't pay duty on LPG, I informed people about the possibility of having an LPG bulk storage tank at home to allow refuelling their LPG car at home. This could seem an extremely cheap way of running their car, cheaper even than paying half price for fuel on the forecourts, but if I tell people about this possibility I should also discuss fuel duty implications... which is what I did. Now, just to help further that understanding - If you run an LPG car it isn't like running a diesel where you might get stopped and your tank dipped, it is impossible to dip an LPG tank. Even if it was possible to dip an LPG tank the stuff that is supplied to bulk storage tanks at people's homes is the same stuff that comes out of forecourt pumps anyway. Just thought I'd put that in an case anyone misunderstood and incorrectly drew parallels between running on LPG supplied to a bulk tank at home and running on red diesel or even biodiesel that they hadn't paid duty on. I don't know if you raised the same concerns on threads where people are talking about running diesels on veg oil etc.

Lia opened this thread by saying she was looking to buy an Elgrand camper and asking if LPG conversion was worth it. Other people that run LPG converted Elgrands have answered and I (who LPG converted most Elgrands for current users of this forum) have replied with info that will further help answer her questions... Even replying to your post helped answer Lia's questions. Your post on the other hand implied she shouldn't buy an Elgrand if she can't afford to run one on petrol, she might instead buy a VW diesel, it didn't touch on the point that LPG conversion could make an Elgrand cost only about half as much to run. By all means post what you like but bare in mind who's replies seem most likely to have answered Lia's questions / who comes across as someone who is against LPG conversion but hasn't explained why.
 

Lpgc

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
#28
Yep, don’t want the hassle/ worry even though I’ve got domestic lpg. If I was doing 20k like I was when I lpg-ed my first e51 rather than 8k max now ... actually probably closer to 6k miles pa I’d considered it further.
I dunno if Tom missed the bit where you implied if you were doing half the mileage he is you'd consider filling from the bulk tank at home, but yeah I imagine plenty people that only do 6000 miles per year wouldn't bother. For the sake of a few hundred quid pump and filler I probably would!
 

Travellingman

Well-Known Member
E50 Owner
Premium Member
#29
I dunno if Tom missed the bit where you implied if you were doing half the mileage he is you'd consider filling from the bulk tank at home, but yeah I imagine plenty people that only do 6000 miles per year wouldn't bother. For the sake of a few hundred quid pump and filler I probably would!
No , I didnt miss that point , but again you seem to have missed my point , I am not interested in lpg because I dont care how much fuel i use or how much i spend on it , its a silly argument again about what people are prepared to pay or do with their money , and I would prefer if you cease from using my mileage and costs [without any explanation/breakdown of cost/mileage/usage ] , as a marketing tool for your business . I am sure a lot of people look at a vehicle and say "I want one " and then they look into the costs and decide against it , some people buy it and then restrict the mileage to afford it , some just tax it for a few months and then sorn it , others may well buy it and then lpg it , throwing more money at it to be able to run it , some buy them , lpg it and then chuck 2,3,4,5,6,k at it to convert it , I bought mine knowing it was a 3.5 v6 auto shaped like a 7 seeded Warburtons loaf [ i dont like Hovis bread , too dry ] and therefore was unlikely to save the planet on fuel usage , however , I use it for work 4 days a week as accomodation , saving me £50 a night hotels , we Holiday in it saving thousands on flights , we use it for trips to the tip , saving money on skips etc etc , , it is our jack of all trades and master of them all as well , it is reliable and cheap to repair when its not , so costs are low , resale of it will be determined by the mileage not by if its lpgeed or not , all my vehicles end up with high mileage , except for my Merc [ henceforth referred to by its name Whoosh ] my mate owns a Mclaren , his choice , how he affords it is his business not mine , how I afford my Elgie and what fuel I use is my business not yours .
 

Travellingman

Well-Known Member
E50 Owner
Premium Member
#30
P.s , my total fuel bill for all my vehicles is actually £12,000 a year , and I am driving an Elgrand , [unlike some ] and in fact looking at buying another one , petrol 3.5 v6 , Happy days
 

Karl

Founder
Staff member
E50 Owner
Premium Member
E50 Expert
#33
Can we please stop the petty bickering?

@Travellingman - We all know you seem to have a personal issue with @Lpgc. But from what I can see, other than the fact that Simon likes to give chapter and verse, is that he is sharing the benefits of LPG with people who are interested. If you are not interested in saving money on fuel, that's your business and should not result in constant arguments.

The age old saying "if you don't like it, ignore it" springs to mind. There really is no need to keep repeating the same arguments over and over again.

I know that in my personal position, LPG is going to be the way forward, and I have learnt a lot about the whole set up from Lpgc's posts. Whether or not I go with him for an install is no one's business but my own, but the fact he shares his knowledge and shows his understanding better than anyone else I know would certainly point me in his direction.

He is a premium member of the club, he is supporting us and has never asked for advertising rights within the club, and vice versa, I have never told anyone they CANNOT advertise their own businesses.

So if you don't like it, ignore it. If you don't like my stance on this matter, then you will have to make your own decision about where you want to go from here.

PS: It's interesting from my PoV that you can openly admit to having money and spending £12k per year on fuel... yet you can't support the club with a £12 donation, yet you benefit from the collective knowledge of everyone here. I'm not saying that I take favour to those who pay up, but when it's always your name coming into question when an argument arrives, I wonder to myself whether you are adding benefit by being here or not.
 
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Travellingman

Well-Known Member
E50 Owner
Premium Member
#34
Can we please stop the petty bickering?

@Travellingman - We all know you seem to have a personal issue with @Lpgc. But from what I can see, other than the fact that Simon likes to give chapter and verse, is that he is sharing the benefits of LPG with people who are interested. If you are not interested in saving money on fuel, that's your business and should not result in constant arguments.

The age old saying "if you don't like it, ignore it" springs to mind. There really is no need to keep repeating the same arguments over and over again.

I know that in my personal position, LPG is going to be the way forward, and I have learnt a lot about the whole set up from Lpgc's posts. Whether or not I go with him for an install is no one's business but my own, but the fact he shares his knowledge and shows his understanding better than anyone else I know would certainly point me in his direction.

He is a premium member of the club, he is supporting us and has never asked for advertising rights within the club, and vice versa, I have never told anyone they CANNOT advertise their own businesses.

So if you don't like it, ignore it. If you don't like my stance on this matter, then you will have to make your own decision about where you want to go from here.

PS: It's interesting from my PoV that you can openly admit to having money and spending £12k per year on fuel... yet you can't support the club with a £12 donation, yet you benefit from the collective knowledge of everyone here. I'm not saying that I take favour to those who pay up, but when it's always your name coming into question when an argument arrives, I wonder to myself whether you are adding benefit by being here or not.
wow what a mouthful , if you look back over my posts i have contributed a lot to this forum , I readily share any info I have about Elgrands and respond promptly to any request for assistance from anyone and ask for nothing in return , if you want me to let LPGC just fire away at me without defending myself then you have not a snowballs chance in hell , the premium he paid is a small price for the amount of business he has had from this forum , , frankly wether I have paid a premium or not neither you nor anyone else will tell me to accept shit from someone without reply , this forum is fun to be on and 99% of the people are fun as well , however I survived with all my previous vehicles without a forum to assist me and I can do the same with my Elgrand . as to it always being my name that comes up if there is an argument ? You Sir are a Fkin Liar :mad: , and I demand that you retract that statement , there are many people who have taken affront with Mr Lpgc and others on this forum not just me , In my opinion we were not arguing we were discussing the merits or otherwise of petrol and other fuel , perhaps you need to butt out until you can tell the difference between debate and rowing , actually with your shit attitude I wonder if I want to be on this forum ,